bannedfromHandV Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, sne said: The last line of the post you quoted? wha? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: wha? Did you even read the post you quoted? If so how could you miss the very clear context of what it said? But never mind as I'm clearly hysterical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 25 minutes ago, vreitti said: This comparison seems rather pointless, seeing as RDM only ever had the 11 games with us, whereas Bruce has already overseen +40 games. In that amount of games one would have hoped he'd have been a significant improvement, but sadly that hasn't been the case. So you've moved the goal posts? It's not a great way to make an argument. You selected the criteria in which to compare two things and then just shoved another 30-odd games after it's been debated that in actual terms, Bruce's record could be significantly better than RDM's at the end of the initially selected criteria. If that's not fair, then I'm not sure what is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 31 minutes ago, vreitti said: This comparison seems rather pointless, seeing as RDM only ever had the 11 games with us, whereas Bruce has already overseen +40 games. In that amount of games one would have hoped he'd have been a significant improvement, but sadly that hasn't been the case. It's not pointless when the OP was comparing the start of last season under RDM with the start of this season under Bruce. I agree there is context that makes the direct comparison difficult. I stated in my post I don't think bruce has started well enough. My only point was that if the next few games go well, which is by no means a certainty, you'd be hard pushed to argue that the start to this season is as bad as RDM's, context or no context, which again is what the OP was arguing. Edited September 19, 2017 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post flashingqwerty Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted September 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Merson08 said: Even if he loses one more game, it isnt quite as bad as RDM, he would need to lose his next 3 games in a row to match RDM. Just saying. I am not Bruce's biggest lover but even I can see that his next 3 games are all very winnable. Playing two of the teams that are south of the table. As a fan of Villa and not as a fan of Bruce he needs to be given an extra month to see how things turn out. Removal of a manager at this stage of the season isnt going to be great and we dont want to look the blouse do we!? In pure numbers yes he would need to lose all 3 but SB doesnt have a group of players who just got relegated after the worst season in the clubs history. Smilarly RDM didnt get 2 transfer windows, a full preseason and 30+ games before getting sacked. So given how much more time and money SB has had, even if he were on 15-19 points, i wouldnt feel he has progressed us anywhere near as far as he should have. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said: He's played 3 games less lol Am I missing something here? You're missing the very different circustances of their respective tenures. With 1 more loss the most SB could achieve would be 16 and my opinion is hes more likely to be on 14 after 11 games. Considering how much more time and resouces SB has had compared to RDM he should have us on 24-26 points. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I'm not Bruce's biggest fan at the moment. But the next 3 games are pretty winnable. So once Bruce has played the same amount of games as RDM had, he could have a record something like Played 11, Won 4, Drawn 5, lost 2 with 17 points. (of course he could have much worse than that, I'm being optimistic) Whether that's good enough is debateable. I'd argue probably not. But you'd be hard pushed to say it's not a significant improvement on RDM's Yeah but you missed the opening line where i say if he loses one. After losing one the best he could have is 16 and 14 is probably more likely. 10 vs 14 - yeah if both had started in similar circumstances and only been in charge for 11 games thats a big difference. Problem is SB has had nearly a year in charge, more resources to use and started with arguably a much better group of players than rdm did. With that context 4-6 points is not enough progress to think SB has achieved more than rdm and should keep his job. If he has anything short of 19 he should be sacked. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 Just now, flashingqwerty said: Yeah but you missed the opening line where i say if he loses one. After losing one the best he could have is 16 and 14 is probably more likely. 10 vs 14 - yeah if both had started in similar circumstances and only been in charge for 11 games thats a big difference. Problem is SB has had nearly a year in charge, more resources to use and started with arguably a much better group of players than rdm did. With that context 4-6 points is not enough progress to think SB has achieved more than rdm and should keep his job. If he has anything short of 19 he should be sacked. I think the verdict is we should probably wait for Bruce to play 11 games before trying to compare it with RDM's 11 games, as opposed to comparing hypothetical situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 The only hypothetical that should lead to SB keeping his job is 4 wins on the trot. Thats the only one thats gets us close to where we should be to be a promotion challenger. Anything less then he has failed and should be removed to give the next man a chance to salvage this season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 4 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: The only hypothetical that should lead to SB keeping his job is 4 wins on the trot. Thats the only one thats gets us close to where we should be to be a promotion challenger. Anything less then he has failed and should be removed to give the next man a chance to salvage this season. In our next 4 games we play Forest and Wolves, both will be pushing for top 6 - Wolves automatic promotion I assume. So it's unlikely that we'll win 4 on the trot, and it's unlikely that should we not win 4, then SB would be sacked. I think you're going to be disappointed when SB is still here after 4 games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 12 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: The only hypothetical that should lead to SB keeping his job is 4 wins on the trot. Thats the only one thats gets us close to where we should be to be a promotion challenger. See this is just OTT for me. Our start hasn't been good enough. But if bruce wins 3 and draws 1 of the next 4 games you'd be calling for him to be sacked? The season doesn't end after 12 games. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: See this is just OTT for me. Our start hasn't been good enough. But if bruce wins 3 and draws 1 of the next 4 games you'd be calling for him to be sacked? The season doesn't end after 12 games. But, that sounds reasonable. High running emotion dictates an absolute position only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, sne said: Did you even read the post you quoted? If so how could you miss the very clear context of what it said? But never mind as I'm clearly hysterical. 4 hours ago, flashingqwerty said: One more defeat this month for me makes SBs start to the season as bad as RDMs (because he has had 2 windows, a preseason and 40+ games to get it right) Should he lose another, i believe that should be the end of his tenure here. For comparison: RDM 10pts from 11 winning 1, drawing 7, losing 3. SB 10pts from 8 winning 2, drawing 4, losing 2 Considering the players signed and the amount of games hes had to get it right, SBs record isnt an awful lot better... He's played 3 games less lol Am I missing something here? There you go, what have I missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clip on mullet Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 What team do you think Bruce will start with tonight? Personally I would like to see some game time for McCormack, Elphick and Hogan. I'm going for this. Steer Bree Clark Elphick de laet Gabby Landsbury Doyle-hayes Bjarnson Hogan McCormack Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 50 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: You're missing the very different circustances of their respective tenures. With 1 more loss the most SB could achieve would be 16 and my opinion is hes more likely to be on 14 after 11 games. Considering how much more time and resouces SB has had compared to RDM he should have us on 24-26 points. I fail to see your point. It's you that decided to compare RDM's 11 games against Bruce's 8 thus far this season. If people want to try and highlight how badly they think he's doing then at least do so on an even keel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted September 19, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said: I fail to see your point. It's you that decided to compare RDM's 11 games against Bruce's 8 thus far this season. If people want to try and highlight how badly they think he's doing then at least do so on an even keel. Comparing raw numbers isnt any more even than comparing circumstance. If you look at any random 11 games versus any random 11 games that isnt fair just because its 11 games. SB has had far more than 11 games to prepare for this season so comparing his first 11 this season to RDMs first 11 with none prior is the epitomy of unfair. Thats why i say given the circumstanes surrounding SBs forst 11 this season and RDMs first 11 them SB should be expected to outperform RDM significantly. For me that means 19 pts from 11 games. Anything less and i believe we should cut him loose because he hasnt shown anything on or off the pitch to suggest he is capable of achieving anything here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 I wouldnt go as far as to say he haa done as badly as di matteo. He was a disaster. How many times were we conceding in the last 10 mins? He coukdbt win back to back. Also he humiliated us in the cup against luton town. He was one of the worst ive seen. Id put him in the sherwood catergory. Bruce is underachieving but far better than those two losers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 43 minutes ago, flashingqwerty said: Comparing raw numbers isnt any more even than comparing circumstance. If you look at any random 11 games versus any random 11 games that isnt fair just because its 11 games. SB has had far more than 11 games to prepare for this season so comparing his first 11 this season to RDMs first 11 with none prior is the epitomy of unfair. Thats why i say given the circumstanes surrounding SBs forst 11 this season and RDMs first 11 them SB should be expected to outperform RDM significantly. For me that means 19 pts from 11 games. Anything less and i believe we should cut him loose because he hasnt shown anything on or off the pitch to suggest he is capable of achieving anything here. I think it's unfair that you're comparing the specific circumstances you chose (which originally was 11 games vs 8). Surely we can only compare the results fairly if we played the same teams, on the same day, with the same match preparations, fed the players the same breakfast, tied their boots up the same, made them listen to the same pre-match music, with the same hormonal and chemical composition, brain function and put them on the pitch in the same order. Otherwise you're wasting everyone's time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, clip on mullet said: What team do you think Bruce will start with tonight? Personally I would like to see some game time for McCormack, Elphick and Hogan. I'm going for this. Steer Bree Clark Elphick de laet Gabby Landsbury Doyle-hayes Bjarnson Hogan McCormack Thoughts? Your likely to get more response to this in the pre match thread but your team is not far off - I'd play o hare though , and samba not Clark . Edited September 19, 2017 by Eastie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NottingVilla Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) 4 hours ago, Mjvilla said: Decided to read back through the thread like others suggested because we've just won 3-0 and I now think Steve Bruce is the MAN! I wavered but now we have won a game I am right behind him. I'm not fickle or anything like that. Now we have won a singular match and are midtable, we are on the up. The pundits were right all along. English dinosaurs are the way, we'll catch Nuno/Wolves easily. Kebabs all around ! Oh, thanks for letting us know. Edited September 19, 2017 by NottingVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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