Steve Bruce

[macandally]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

The point was that even when we're playing well, scoring goals, restricting the opposition and controlling a game people still say that's it's crap, not good enough etc.

I think you were watching a different game?

We didn't manage to string together more than five passes, were disjointed and were very fortunate with two punts over the top into channels.  Usually, this was the ball of choice as we were not in a position to play through the thirds.

Barnsley worked the ball better, faster and through better positions and the possession stats favoured them right through till the last 15-20 minutes.  That was probably the only time we looked "in control" but even then Ugbo had two gilt edged chances to score.

You seem to be attempting to match the performance to the result!

What some of us can see is that if you makes this squad a team and get them on the front foot, we will blow teams away.  Unfortunately Bruce doesn't seem to see that and therefore,  some of us want better than flukes results.  We want consistent results!

[jacketspuds]

Bruce should have just admitted that we've not been good enough of late, and that the Barnsley performance and result were exactly what we should be striving toward compared to some of the more recent turd games. He continues to try and cover his own arse though, which is the sign of a manager who does not give a shit about anything other than self-preservation.

Bruce somehow manages to have a pop when we win and when we lose. Still a clearing in the woods in my eyes.

Edited September 17, 2017 by jacketspuds

[Eastie]

19 minutes ago, macandally said:

I think you were watching a different game?

We didn't manage to string together more than five passes, were disjointed and were very fortunate with two punts over the top into channels.  Usually, this was the ball of choice as we were not in a position to play through the thirds.

Barnsley worked the ball better, faster and through better positions and the possession stats favoured them right through till the last 15-20 minutes.  That was probably the only time we looked "in control" but even then Ugbo had two gilt edged chances to score.

You seem to be attempting to match the performance to the result!

What some of us can see is that if you makes this squad a team and get them on the front foot, we will blow teams away.  Unfortunately Bruce doesn't seem to see that and therefore,  some of us want better than flukes results.  We want consistent results!

No great fan of Bruce but can't see how he can be faulted yesterday - I thought we looked dangerous every time we attacked and solid in defence - was a classic away performance for me and totally deserved .

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Shropshire Lad said:

I don't mind a bit of bite from the manager over criticisms he's received. I can imagine he genuinely feels he's the right man for the job and he wants to keep it. As he's said, this is the biggest job he's had. So I can understand why he'd be a bit defensive over criticism.

However it's probably worth Bruce considering that it was only a week ago he oversaw a performance which prompted him to say -

"It’s arguably the worst we’ve been since I’ve been here."

You said that, Steve. Not the online community. And it's not the first time you've said it either.

So by all means, keep getting results that will shut up the naysayers. I for one hope you do. But don't pretend there's been nothing to worry about with your "crisis - what crisis?" style comments.

Excellent post. He has freely admitted in many interviews that we have not been good, in fact not good enough for what is required and then says everyone is being hysterical repeating exactly what he himself has said. 

It's a bit mental really. 

[Eastie]

 

2 minutes ago, jacketspuds said:

Bruce should have just admitted that we've not been good enough of late, and that the Barnsley performance and result were exactly what we should be striving toward compared to some of the more recent turd games. He continues to try and cover his own arse though, which is the sign of a manager who does not give a shit about anything other than self-preservation.

Bruce somehow manages to have a pop when we win and when we lose. Still a clearing in the woods in my eyes.

His post match comments were poor and he needs to stop that - he needs the fans with him and to be able to take criticism - he gets well paid so should be able to handle the stick if warranted .

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, Jareth said:

In what world are you allowed to give someone abuse and then when it is given back say it is completely out of order? Yeah he gets paid a lot but that doesn't alter it for me anyway. 

Managers just don't do it, they realise that the fans pay to watch and have a right to moan. I think he's been cut plenty of slack and hasn't been abused just criticised, which he deserves. And anyway, football is hardly the real world!!

[sidcow]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

People are genuinely gutted that we won.

This is a ridiculous comment. There has not been a single post where anyone is gutted or upset or even mildly annoyed we won. 

People are just pointing out that the performance was still not entirely convincing and that they are not convinced we have turned a corner. 

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said:

Yes well he's never had to deal with the expectation and entitlement of some villa fans before. Every time he has a go back I think..'good on you steve'. 

Unfortunately it's the idiotic few that shout the loudest and thus appear to be speaking for the masses. Fans I actually speak to want him to stay. I hope he does and does well.

Well you're allowed your opinion, but on here it is hardly a few and I'm not so sure how anyone can shout louder than anyone else on an Internet forum. As for calling people idiots because they disagree with your opinion, well let's just leave it at silly. 

[peterms]

10 minutes ago, sidcow said:

 There has not been a single post where anyone is gutted or upset or even mildly annoyed we won. 

I think some people are thinking about a few comments to the effect that "I'd take a loss if it meant we could change the manager quickly, to save the season"  and extrapolating from there, reading in things that haven't been said.  Some people also seem to conflate criticism of the manager's performance over the last year with an assumed inability to welcome a win.

 

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, Genie said:

This is it.

Just because there is a collective in here fully paid up members of the "I want the manager sacked because it has always worked so well for us before even though there isn't  anybody decent to replace him with let's sack him anyway" club doesn't mean it's unanimous.

 

The only collective in here is Villa supporters. The fact that we see things differently and have our own opinions on how the club should progress is the very reason that there are forums like this and that we bother to come on express those opinions. It's where people debate things about the club they love and have a passion for. 

Your opinions are as welcome as anyone else's, but it's a two way street you have to accept that not everyone will agree with you. 

[markavfc40]

3 hours ago, RimmyJimmer said:

Every time he has a go back I think..'good on you steve'. 

Unfortunately it's the idiotic few that shout the loudest and thus appear to be speaking for the masses. Fans I actually speak to want him to stay. I hope he does and does well.

I am not so sure about that. I think he has gone over the top in both his pre and post match comments and needs to wind it in and let the results do his talking. Results like yesterday are the best way to answer his critics and shut them up.

I actually don't really know where he is coming from in terms of the criticism. He may well have been given a hard time on social media and in phone ins etc but in terms of where it really matters and has any real impact, on the terraces, I think he has been given a fair ride and I haven't sensed at the games any real clamouring for him to go. The mood music has been quite supportive. In fact he acknowledged that himself in his press conference on Friday. 

One positive to come from him feeling the heat is that he has come out swinging in terms of being positive with the line up yesterday. Hopefully that will now continue and we can build some positive momentum under him and string some wins together. This squad is more than capable of that and Bruce has shown in the past he is capable of delivering it. If he does I am sure we will all be happy.

[KSV]

Players have ability.. but its a confidence issue too. Win 3-0 performing well or badly.. cant be bad for their confidence. Start putting 3-4 wins in a row.. this squad could fly with or without Bruce. He isnt a bad manager over night.

The one good thing i like about him.. is he isnt stubborn.. he tried the 3-5-2.. it didnt work and he ditched it... Hourihane and Adomah have been dropped and once they came back hit form he stuck with them.. same with Davis.. could easily have dropped him for not scoring after 3-4 starts and bringing in the likes of Hogan. 

Dont care what he says in the press conferences.. as long as hes saying the right things to our players. Big test is.. can we back up our last 3-0 win.. 

[Stevo985]

46 minutes ago, sidcow said:

This is a ridiculous comment. There has not been a single post where anyone is gutted or upset or even mildly annoyed we won. 

People are just pointing out that the performance was still not entirely convincing and that they are not convinced we have turned a corner. 

If you believe that then fair enough. 

There were people openly admitting before the game that they wanted us to lose, and the bitterness shown in this thread towards people enjoying the result suggest a few people are less than pleased that we won. 

So I'll choose to believe that SOME people are disappointed that we won.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Stevo985

[Phumfeinz]

I mean, it wasn't even a month ago we scored four times in two successive games and things were looking good again before we immediately reverted back to the normal standard of the previous 11 months which is shite, aimless football.

I'm glad we won, and I'm glad we won in pretty decent fashion, but let's see if we can actually maintain those performances this time. Previous experience suggests otherwise.

[Grasshopper]

 

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

That tactic won't work in a lot of games though and certainly is unlikely to work at home but it is one I think we can have success with again.

and that being another point.

Has Bruce shown alternative tactics during his tenure to suggest that he can and will "play to suit" for a complete 46 game period gaining enough points that could get us promoted?

That's exactly where his problem lies.

The random trial & error only gets random results.

[markavfc40]

13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

If you believe that then fair enough. 

There were people openly admitting before the game that they wanted us to lose, and the bitterness shown in this thread towards people enjoying the result suggest a few people are less than pleased that we won. 

So I'll choose to believe that SOME people are disappointed that we won.

I think you're right there is a touch of that. I said in this thread on Monday that I felt I was having to justify wanting us to win against Boro as it was being suggested those that were content to see us lose if it meant Bruce getting the sack were seeing the bigger picture. I guess that still has to be the case and us winning yesterday, almost certainly resulting in Bruce keeping his job for a while longer, will clearly be a disappointment to some, or those who apparently see the bigger picture.

I have no burning desire either way in terms of Bruce. Whilst he remains manager I want us to win every game under him but if he were to be sacked I certainly wouldn't shred any tears and think it was the wrong decision.

With that in mind as he will be our manager next week lets hope he can build on yesterdays win and bag another three points. The more times he can do that the more he'll take me, and I think a few of us who are on the fence off it and into the pro Bruce camp. There is certainly no bigger picture or anything to be gained from us losing games. That just makes the task of achieving our goal this season harder for whoever the manager will be going forward.

[striker]

Just goes to show that this Villa squad is plenty good enough to turn over the opposition in this league by some distance without Kodjia scoring and even when not playing well if the right players are chosen in their preferred positions.

The point is, will Bruce stick with that now or will he become more defensive again knowing his job is safe in the immediate future?

Maybe the fans should keep on his back through social media until the end of the season to keep him angry and vindictive so that he will become more adventurous and pay Championship teams less respect?

Edited September 17, 2017 by striker

[markavfc40]

10 minutes ago, Grasshopper said:

 

and that being another point.

Has Bruce shown alternative tactics during his tenure to suggest that he can and will "play to suit" for a complete 46 game period gaining enough points that could get us promoted?

That's exactly where his problem lies.

The random trial & error only gets random results.

In fairness he has tried a number of tactics and has arguably chopped and changed formations too much.

Yesterdays worked and can work again against certain opposition as we certainly have the personnel to play a counter attacking game very effectively as shown yesterday.

I actually think that line up yesterday can play a more possession based game as well. The forward five players are all very comfortable on the ball. In fact both full backs and Terry are also comfortable in possession.

Bruce has put a very good squad together for me and his biggest crime, and it is a big one, is in not getting the best out of it. I think the last two performances have been decent. He now needs to turn that into a run of five or six games. If we can I think this squad with some forward momentum and playing with the confidence that comes from winning will take some stopping and this season can still be a very successful one. 

[Rob182]

1 minute ago, striker said:

Just goes to show that this Villa squad is plenty good enough to turn over the opposition in this league by some distance even when not playing well if the right players are chosen in their preferred positions.

Which is exactly what us fans have been saying for too long under Bruce. It's easy just to say "we're too negative", but dig a little deeper and the problem is that we're giving too much respect to opposition that we should be beating 9 times out of 10. It's almost like Bruce doesn't trust the players he has, or maybe he's too used to being the underdog and scraping 1-0s and 2-1s.

 

So many times during a match, you'll hear people questioning why we haven't left a man on the halfway line during an opposition corner, or why we're persisting with one striker when the opposition are inviting us to attack them. Too often Bruce gets the little things wrong, it seems.

 

He's bought himself another two games, and if he can win them both then he'll have a lot of people back on side. Will we do it though? I'm not so sure.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

If you believe that then fair enough. 

There were people openly admitting before the game that they wanted us to lose, and the bitterness shown in this thread towards people enjoying the result suggest a few people are less than pleased that we won. 

So I'll choose to believe that SOME people are disappointed that we won.

Even the people who might intimate that sentiment, can't help but be happy when we win because it's the team we support.

The fear people have is for the BIGGER WIN, the future of the club, and understandably are worried that cracks get papered over and long term we go no where.