Steve Bruce

[VILLAMARV]

Well glad we won but the reality is we're still closer to the bottom 3 than the top 3 albeit by a point. Simply has to beat Forest, Burton and Bolton. Then the bad start might look like a storm in a teacup, but until then the pressure is rightly still on him.

[villabromsgrove]

The only agenda I have is that I want Villa to do well.

The only half decent football I can remember us playing was when Bruce had no choice but to change things. Twice this season he's had to put out a more attacking line up, once through injuries and yesterday because his job may well have depended on getting a win.

His negative default football which he has relied on in over forty matches, is nowhere near good enough to get us promoted. He now has to persevere with s system that he's clearly not comfortable with if we are to continue to win games.

As I say, I don't have an agenda, I only have the opinion that Steve Bruce is not Villa's best option for the future well being of the club that I love.

[TRO]

14 hours ago, villabromsgrove said:

Today's match clearly showed that our players are much better than Barnsley 's players, and also probably better than at least 23 of 24 teams in this league.

I'm not going to get carried away because for the first 45 minutes we let Barnsley boss the ball even though they gifted us 2 goals during that time by unfortunate amateur mistakes.

It was only when the third goal went in that we started to play a dominant pressing high tempo game.

I'm delighted that we got three points, but I  have to say that today (imo) didn't so much reinforce Bruce's management, as demonstrate the tools that a really good manager would have to work with. 

Having thought for a few hours since the finish of the game, I'm immensely encouraged by the obvious quality of the players we have available to us, but even more convinced that a change of manager now, in favour of a bright progressive tactician would rocket us up the league. 

They were forced errors not unforced errors, so i would say gifted goals is subjective.

for sure mistakes but whilst not getting carried away, lets not discredit ourselves too quickly, the opposition do that very well.

It is still quite conceivable imo that the time together is starting to manifest itself and you are right the 3rd goal did introduce a tad of swagger.

Its early days of this kind of form ,so we must wait and see.

ps I don't subscribe to the theory of Barnsley being poor either as some allude to,they made mistakes, but were well committed.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, VILLAMARV said:

Well glad we won but the reality is we're still closer to the bottom 3 than the top 3 albeit by a point. Simply has to beat Forest, Burton and Bolton. Then the bad start might look like a storm in a teacup, but until then the pressure is rightly still on him.

The reality is, we still have 38 games to play, 114 points to play for......in a marathon we have completed the equivalent of just under 4 mile. Its not the end of the season, its the beginning.

There is a long way to go.

We have had a poor start,so it follows we are closer the bottom, but we are climbing, we have to sustain a run, thats clear.

but i would rather have a poor start, than a poor finish.

We all know what we have to do....if the crowd are confident the players feel it....we all feed off each other.

To mention 3 clean sheets on the bounce, does not ignore some of the failings, but it can't be sniffed at.

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

They were forced errors not unforced errors, so i would say gifted goals is subjective.

for sure mistakes but whilst not getting carried away, lets not discredit ourselves too quickly, the opposition do that very well.

It is still quite conceivable imo that the time together is starting to manifest itself and you are right the 3rd goal did introduce a tad of swagger.

Its early days of this kind of form ,so we must wait and see.

ps I don't subscribe to the theory of Barnsley being poor either as some allude to,they made mistakes, but were well committed.

Are you doing the trokey Cokey again  

For what it's worth I thought it was a classic away performance and very impressive - let's keep it going .

Edited September 17, 2017 by Eastie

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, Eastie said:

Are you doing the trokey Cokey again  

For what it's worth I thought it was a classic away performance and very impressive - let's keep it going .

I just find it amazing so many can dig deep to pour scorn on a 3-0 away win.

was all our troubles to be expected to be washed away in one game, no....so why do we talk like they should be.

frailities were still there, but there was more positives on display, than in recent weeks.

I can perfectly understand a fan of ours wanting a manager like Rafa.....(he was a fat spanish waiter, not long ago, how times change) but we have a manager.

We need to win games, SB knows we need to win games, SB knows we have had a poor start and needs to get a lot better.....lets let him get on with it and see where it takes us.

[DaveAV1]

3 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I actually think that line up yesterday can play a more possession based game as well. The forward five players are all very comfortable on the ball. In fact both full backs and Terry are also comfortable in possession.

I agree Mark, the players we have are more than capable of being comfortable in possession. The question is does the manager agree, or indeed have the game plan to allow that to happen. At one point in the first half we only had 19% possession. 

[TRO]

I still think Whelan and Jedinak( when fit) can play in a 4-2-3-1 formation....when the time is right.

interesting how Man U have Fellani and Matic as 2 holding players in todays game at home.....yes they are more complete players, but the principle is still employed.

some think it s negative or defensive, but in fact when you are in the ascendency they come forward.....also ball winners start the attack, paradoxically.

I for one would not baulk at the option.

Edited September 17, 2017 by TRO

[Eastie]

7 minutes ago, DaveAV1 said:

I agree Mark, the players we have are more than capable of being comfortable in possession. The question is does the manager agree, or indeed have the game plan to allow that to happen. At one point in the first half we only had 19% possession. 

Not too worried about possession - hull  dominated possession and lost 5-0  at derby a few days ago - it's all  about goals . 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, DaveAV1 said:

I agree Mark, the players we have are more than capable of being comfortable in possession. The question is does the manager agree, or indeed have the game plan to allow that to happen. At one point in the first half we only had 19% possession.

If a player is comfortable in possession, then he's comfortable in possession - that is nothing to do with the manager. It's innate. However, I do agree that if the tactics are hoofball and the coaching is all about playing it long or whatever, then that's another matter. Our problem is IMO all about coaching and about tactics, not about the other aspects of managing. Bruce is fine at buying and selling, and dealing with players - they seem to respect him and all the rest. I really think that we need to be more than one dimensional, more than "give it to so and so to chase after and they'll maybe do something". The coaching needs to be working more on interplay, particularly between the midfield and forwards and between forwards. More pas and move, more give and get, triangles and all that kind of creative stuff. We defend pretty well, set plays are OK. Control of the game is where we lack, because despite the abilities of the players, for whatever reason they're too prone to giving the ball away, either by "passing" for people to chase after, or because of lack of understanding and movement, and lack of a cohesive template - where people know what to do and where to go, and when.

[Eastie]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I still think Whelan and Jedinak( when fit) can play in a 4-2-3-1 formation....when the time is right.

interesting how Man U have Fellani and Matic as 2 holding players in todays game at home.....yes they are more complete players, but the principle is still employed.

some think it s negative or defensive, but in fact when you are in the ascendency they come forward.....also ball winners start the attack, paradoxically.

I for one would not baulk at the option.

Certainly away from home I think it could work - would be too negative at home. 

[dappadan]

15 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

If you are going to tell people to do research and reference last season then you need to do the same. Barnsley virtually have a new squad this season as so many of their players got picked off.

Nobody is expecting us to play like Brazil so I'm not sure why you need to point out the folly of such a stance.

As for your last paragraph I think that's an extremley positive way of looking at things. You could just as easily say we are no better than this time 12 months ago and still seemingly largely dependent upon the presence of Kodjia.

Fwiw I am not impressed by Bruce overall either. My point was around the extreme views that promotion winning teams should smash teams like Barnsley. I also pointed out that despite the team being decimated that they have defeated Forest, Derby and Sunderland in the last 3 home games scoring 8 in the process. 

If you support Villa then you have to take the rough with the smooth especially after what we have all witnessed over the last few years. We just like any other team have no divine right to smash teams like Barnsley. 

I just tend to see the positive in life aswell as football I guess and don't try to second guess what should or will happen.

Edited September 17, 2017 by dappadan

[Lerner's Driver]

Do we encourage insights from other sites here? This article from 'My Old Man Said' discusses the survey they conducted into how long Bruce should have. Tro might find it interesting...

Quote

With some Villa supporters still frustrated by the previous season, it was as early as the third game of the season that they were calling for Steve Bruce’s head.

Suddenly according to some, the following Norwich City game was a ‘must-win’ and if Villa didn’t win it, then Bruce should be sacked.

 

[Eastie]

13 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

Do we encourage insights from other sites here? This article from 'My Old Man Said' discusses the survey they conducted into how long Bruce should have. Tro might find it interesting...

Interesting piece indeed.

[PieFacE]

4-2-3-1 doesn't need to be negative. But you need good ball players and we can't pass the ball for shit.

[foreveryoung]

Still not convinced. 

I know some will slate me, but Barnsley were awful, an to be fair there were times we were letting them play like Barcelona around us. Yes it was a win, but for me a lucky one. Ofcourse i'm not saying get Bruce out today, but it will take a few more games to get me to believe he has now found the winning system. Time will tell but i'm not convinced as yet.

We have a great squad to my belief, if not the best in the League, so we should be winning games against the shite teams a bit more convincingly. I mean Barnsley, who the f**** are they??

[Eastie]

11 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Still not convinced. 

I know some will slate me, but Barnsley were awful, an to be fair there were times we were letting them play like Barcelona around us. Yes it was a win, but for me a lucky one. Ofcourse i'm not saying get Bruce out today, but it will take a few more games to get me to believe he has now found the winning system. Time will tell but i'm not convinced as yet.

We have a great squad to my belief, if not the best in the League, so we should be winning games against the shite teams a bit more convincingly. I mean Barnsley, who the f**** are they??

He's bought himself more time - the ball is in his court now and the fixtures are favourable - however there cannot be any more slip ups this month or false dawns - it is time for Bruce to stand and deliver !

[romavillan]

Just now, Eastie said:

He's bought himself more time - the ball is in his court now and the fixtures are favourable - however there cannot be any more slip ups this month or false dawns - it is time for Bruce to stand and deliver !

He'll have to deliver much better than that first half against Barnsley or we won't be going on this run he's talking about.

[Eastie]

2 minutes ago, romavillan said:

He'll have to deliver much better than that first half against Barnsley or we won't be going on this run he's talking about.

Well he's certainly no dandy highwayman  

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, dappadan said:

Fwiw I am not impressed by Bruce overall either. My point was around the extreme views that promotion winning teams should smash teams like Barnsley. I also pointed out that despite the team being decimated that they have defeated Forest, Derby and Sunderland in the last 3 home games scoring 8 in the process. 

If you support Villa then you have to take the rough with the smooth especially after what we have all witnessed over the last few years. We just like any other team have no divine right to smash teams like Barnsley. 

I just tend to see the positive in life aswell as football I guess and don't try to second guess what should or will happen.

I'm not really sure I get your point, I don't think anyone expected us to smash Barnsley. I think some have said despite the positive result that our performance wasn't actually that good, I certainly think the score flattered us.

I think people expected us to be doing better than we are this season, I think that is a reasonable belief.

As for taking rough with smooth, I don't really think anyone needs to be told that and I don't think anyone thinks we've a Devine right to anything. I do think people think with our squad we should be taking games to teams like Barnsley rather than hitting them on the break.

As for being positive in life, same, but I see very little positive in Steve Bruce's time at the club to date other than some of the players he has signed. It's just a shame he seems so incapable of getting the best from them.

Yesterday was a big improvement on previous games but the concern for me is yet again the rule of thumb is Kodjia plays we win and if he doesn't we don't. After 11 months Bruce seems to have done nothing to reduce this reliance.