Popular Post One For The Road Posted February 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said: These players are all safe for next season. Bruce is not, unless he gets a turnaround in results. I think we would have to have a catastrophic end to the season for Bruce to be even close to the sack. And rightly so. We can't keep changing managers and not giving them time to build. Bruce is an expert, THE expert at getting promoted from this division and he deserves plenty of time to get his team settled. He has only had one window and that was possibly our best window in years. It's madness to bring him in and give no time to work his magic. He has only had 2 games with his own players and they will need time to gel. In short, he will get at least the summer transfer window and then probably til Christmas. If things haven't improved by then it would be difficult for the board to keep him on but we are miles away from that scenario. He is going nowhere. And nor should he. Yet. Edited February 7, 2017 by One For The Road 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khizzy Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Sacking Bruce now will achieve nothing, apart from make the club more unstable which isn't what we need right now. We know we're not going to make the play offs now, barring a minor miracle and our home form should be more than enough to keep us up this season. So we need to ensure that we're ready for next season by integrating the new signings over the remainder of our games and ensuring we have a positive approach to matches that we can take into next August and beyond. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberman Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Given that the play offs are a write off now, we need to see the bedding in of the 3-5-2 and some steady improvements in performance and results for the rest of the season. Anything below top half and I think we'd need to see a change in the summer. A decent run in from here and a finish around 8th (still 10 points away!) to 10th and that would be enough for me to stick with Steve. The average managers tenure in the Championship is less than a year these days, but IIRC over the last few years most of the promoted clubs have had managers with 2+ years at their clubs. There really is a benefit to continuity and allowing the manager time to develop his team. It's grim to have another year down here but as it's now pretty much inevitable let's use the time to get properly prepared to go straight up next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Yeah I like the 3-5-2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vreitti Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 32 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: The new issue is that, since promotion chances are pretty much gone, they might just coast it the rest of the season feeling there is nothing to play for. Which may present in the words of Fox a "false narrative" on the standings of the players, manager and potential of the team. I for one hope they give it their absolute all! If this were to happen, it would be an absolute abomination. Don't think Tony would have it. The way I see it, Bruce's lifeline is getting shorter by each dropped point. He'll most likely not even survive the next 4-5 games, if a radical improvement doesn't occur, and rightfully so. On the other hand, every improved performance should warrant a little more leverage and time. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntrimBlack Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 17 minutes ago, One For The Road said: I think we would have to have a catastrophic end to the season for Bruce to be even close to the sack. And rightly so. We can't keep changing managers and not giving them time to build. Bruce is an expert, THE expert at getting promoted from this division and he deserves plenty of time to get his team settled. He has only had one window and that was possibly our best window in years. It's madness to bring him in and give no time to work his magic. He has only had 2 games with his own players and they will need time to gel. In short, he will get at least the summer transfer window and then probably til Christmas. If things haven't improved by then it would be difficult for the board to keep him on but we are miles away from that scenario. He is going nowhere. And nor should he. Yet. That would keep us in the Championship for another year. Very easy to get marooned down there. Down here, I should say - still not quite used to it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Daweii said: We can't keep scrapping managers. We have hired and fired so many managers in the last 5 years that we don't know if our problem is the players, the managers, or the mere lack of stability. A manager at this club needs longer than 6-12 months, I feel lack of managerial faith has been one of our biggest problems. So are you saying we should have stuck with RDM until the end of the season? or maybe Sherwood? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jas10 Posted February 7, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) I'm really not comfortable with the notion or expectancy that we will be challenging for promotion next year - there is absolutely no guarantee of that and not a single sign of that happening at the moment. Who can say that will definitely happen with Bruce still in charge with any certainty? Forget his record, I find it fairly irrelevant and that hasn't been backed up so far with how he's been doing at our club. Things change and the past isn't always relevant, if you don't keep up you can easily be left behind - the old ways don't always work. I'm very frustrated by Bruce but ultimately want the club to succeed regardless of who the manager is. He hasn't provided any signs or any encouragement so far, we don't play (well) and are lacking in ideas, determination, unity and identity. This is Aston Villa, not some small time club or underdog. We shouldn't be a defensive or counter attacking team, at least not at this level. It was or would've been understandable in the PL, especially with the restrictions created by Lerner, and the odd performance or result against the "big" teams was a small highlight at times. Now we are in the Championship, we are (at least externally) more prestigious and have way more resources compared to other clubs, who I actually respect for managing to perform so well and for displaying the necessary attributes of teamwork, unity and effort, especially when compared to us! They consistently seem to be outshining us in that regard, which is utterly embarrassing! Fine, let's give it more time (again) plus the messages coming out from the leadership is that any change is not imminent so we just have to accept it for now. But, if it carries on like this and doesn't get any better (which no one can predict or foresee) then a change definitely needs to be made, once again, until it's the right one. Personally, I'd rather give Time to a manager (and management team, which is just as important - not happy with these random, late appointments to backroom staff that may not coincide with the managers thoughts or philosophy - if he even has one) with a specific plan or philosophy in terms of an attacking style of play that would befit a club of our stature and enhance our image somewhat, which has been tarnished incredibly over recent years. Someone with a bit of passion and drive, with maybe a point to prove and who genuinely wants to create a team we fans can all be proud of! If we do manage to improve, with Bruce still in charge, that would be great and of course I, along with others, would be happy but when that doesn't seem like a realistic possibility it's understandable for fans to be frustrated and complain. I suppose one key point to make or highlight is that, a lot of the time, fans can be quite understanding (e.g. of trouble behind the scenes, financial restraints, boardroom turmoil etc.) and are quite willing to give managers time if results aren't quite going to plan so long as there is at least Something to be encouraged with, from the team's performances e.g. If the players are getting the ball down, trying to pass it, making chances but maybe just finding it difficult to score, appear to be unlucky etc. that can be accepted as a rough patch and there is hope that those performances will improve more or just become more effective and results will materialise. But when the football is consistently dour, overly defensive, hoofball etc, then it's not encouraging at all and is always worrying... Edited February 7, 2017 by Jas10 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grasshopper Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I'm really not comfortable with the notion or expectancy that we will be challenging for promotion next year - there is absolutely no guarantee of that and not a single sign of that happening at the moment. I'm 100% wirh you 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Who can say that will definitely happen with Bruce still in charge with any certainty? Forget his record, I find it fairly irrelevant and that hasn't been backed up so far with how he's been doing at our club. Things change and the past isn't always relevant, if you don't keep up you can easily be left behind - the old ways don't always work. not only that, some things are just not a fit. hiding behind or hanging on in hope more than belief to a past record is simply wrong when its not working 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: I'm very frustrated by Bruce but ultimately want the club to succeed regardless of who the manager is. 100% I think we all are 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: He hasn't provided any signs or any encouragement so far, we don't play (well) and are lacking in ideas, determination, unity and identity. Summed up perfectly 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: This is Aston Villa, not some small time club or underdog. We shouldn't be a defensive or counter attacking team, at least not at this level. It was or would've been understandable in the PL, especially with the restrictions created by Lerner, and the odd performance or result against the "big" teams was a small highlight at times. Now we are in the Championship, we are (at least externally) more prestigious and have way more resources compared to other clubs, who I actually respect for managing to perform so well and for displaying the necessary attributes of teamwork, unity and effort, especially when compared to us! They consistently seem to be outshining us in that regard, which is utterly embarrassing! Absolutely nailed on We are Aston Villa - not Luton, Cardiff, Preston.......etc 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Fine, let's give it more time (again) plus the messages coming out from the leadership is that any change is not imminent so we just have to accept it for now. I wonder how close up above are watching the clock tick. I really hope they're on the ball and have big balls to make a decision 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: But, if it carries on like this and doesn't get any better (which no one can predict or foresee) then a change definitely needs to be made, once again, until it's the right one. This is it! What other choice do we have other than to do whatever it takes to get it right? 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Personally, I'd rather give Time to a manager (and management team, which is just as important - not happy with these random, late appointments to backroom staff that may not coincide with the managers thoughts or philosophy - if he even has one) with a specific plan or philosophy in terms of an attacking style of play that would befit a club of our stature and enhance our image somewhat, which has been tarnished incredibly over recent years. Someone with a bit of passion and drive, with maybe a point to prove and who genuinely wants to create a team we fans can all be proud of! Who you have described there is simply not Steve Bruce. 35 minutes ago, Jas10 said: But when the football is consistently dour, overly defensive, hoofball etc, then it's not encouraging at all and is always worrying... .....then its time for a change @Jas10 superb post 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, VillaCas said: So are you saying we should have stuck with RDM until the end of the season? or maybe Sherwood? I think Stevo addressed that point in a logical sense.....a short while back. Steve Bruce has won 8 games as opposed to RDM's 1 league game. there are also plenty of Nous behind the scenes now to know whether SB is worth persevering with or not.....they will know what he is doing. However, a constant run of defeats will test any plan of Stability, no matter how sensible it is to stick with it. Steve Bruce, knows he has to win games.....and he knows this assembly of players, needs to represent a football team. no amount of praising, defending him, or criticising, will change that. We just have to win games. Edited February 7, 2017 by TRO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 2 hours ago, VillaCas said: So are you saying we should have stuck with RDM until the end of the season? or maybe Sherwood? No. I am just saying that unless Bruce has us in the relegation zone with no clear clue how to get us out then stick with him. RDM and Sherwood deserved what they got. I mean RDM was on route to sending us to League One.. RDM accrued 9 points in 11 games. Bruce came in and accrued 24 points in 13 games. That is Championship winning form. Yes we have under performed for the 5 league games since that run, but Bruce doesn't deserve to go. If we keep losing then maybe, but not yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 7, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2017 4 hours ago, Eastie said: Unquestionably - having got to within 3 points of the play offs in December most would have thought things would improve even more from there as the team got used to the new manager and we would kick on - however it's been hugely dissapointing and I feel he made a big mistake bringing in johnstoNe and also failing to get at least loan cover for kodija and ayew while away for a month January saw 1point from several winnable games against teams below us in the table - it has killed our season and Bruce should have aware of the need for an experienced keeper and striker cover even if it had only been a loan - the decision to rely on gabby was stupid and for that he has to take total blame . Good post and one which I totally agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 The one thing on Bruce's side was the lack of a midfield. He now has two of the best midfielders in this league playing for him. Add to that the addition of another top striker from this league, a promising young right back, another decent midfielder and, a new left back. With that level of transfer activity the very least we should achieve between now and the end of the season is a settled team that shows cohesion and stability that narrows that gap right down between us and 6th. Anything less than that will make me want to see a managerial change in the summer. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted February 7, 2017 Author Share Posted February 7, 2017 People saying sack him how do you players like hogan kodjia and Bree won't just get fed up of the constant changing decide they want to leave? should only go if this recent poor form continues and finish like we started in 2017. I suspect things are going to improve shortly. one positive is seeing no greasy grealish in the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I think we need to calm down and wait and see what happens in the next 5 to 10 games when the new players bed in. The playoffs is over but I expect some wins and for us to be at least top half after that run of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 All this Bruce deserving time because he is a so called expert. Right now, I'd take a non expert like Gary monk whose actually looking like he might get a team promoted ASAP rather than us endure this shit in the hope it's going to get better. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2017 20 hours ago, terrytini said: Can't agree Bruce was getting results until January, we've got 11 points from the last 11 games ? That's fact, and it's relegation form. Secondly, if he HAD been getting results until January and it was the recruitment that was now costing points then by definition that would be the Managers fault for bringing a good run to an end by his dealings !!! Bu he didn't, because we've been poor going back considerably further than January. Until January Bruce got 25 points from 13 games. That's a ratio that would get us about 89 points over a season. If that's not "getting results" then your benchmark is **** high. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) 20 hours ago, terrytini said: And Stevo I would genuinely love to know why people ( it isn't a lot btw) can 'see things may very well improve' ? I didn't think it was rocket science. We made quality additions in the transfer window that addressed key areas of the team that were previously very weak. Edited February 7, 2017 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 13 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: Until January Bruce got 25 points from 13 games. That's a ratio that would get us about 89 points over a season. If that's not "getting results" then your benchmark is **** high. And the next 5......Promotion, relegation....It's his whole record here that will determine how long his tenure is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted February 7, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 7, 2017 14 minutes ago, mykeyb said: And the next 5......Promotion, relegation....It's his whole record here that will determine how long his tenure is. I agree. Which is exactly why we should see if his new look team can improve results to an acceptable level again rather than calling for the manager's head after most of them have been here a week. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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