Arsenal

[villa89]

On ‎18‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 20:17, PaulC said:

Ozil was one of the culprits. Same old Arsenal.

Same old Ozil. Said it before but he's a sunshine player. When it's easy he's a world beater, when the chips are down and the game is hard he's not arsed.

[Czechlad]

18 hours ago, VillaChris said:

They signed one for 30m this summer didn't they?

Is Xhaka a true DM though? I always thought he was more of a box to box type midfielder. More like Toni Kroos rather than someone like Busquets. I think Arsenal would've been better off signing Gustavo, Gonalons, Carvalho, Matuidi, or Diarra. 

[villa4europe]

but after 8 years coquelin had a good 6 months so they didnt need a world class DMC

 

[kurtsimonw]

4 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm sure that they appreciate that possibility but a lot of them have reached the point they think it's time to take the gamble.

Agreed. United's was forced upon them and they likely wouldn't have sacked Fergie because there was the risk of winning trophies regularly to not. What do Arsenal really have to lose? Seeing them win a few group games in the Champions League and not really winning anything? The potential upside of losing Wenger heavily outweighs the potential downside IMO.

[Genie]

3 hours ago, kurtsimonw said:

Agreed. United's was forced upon them and they likely wouldn't have sacked Fergie because there was the risk of winning trophies regularly to not. What do Arsenal really have to lose? Seeing them win a few group games in the Champions League and not really winning anything? The potential upside of losing Wenger heavily outweighs the potential downside IMO.

I'm the opposite, they could easily slip back into the chasing CL pack with even a small dip in form and the new they'll be swamped with the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Man United plus others. A couple of years out of the big time and they'll be dreaming of the days playing on a Tuesday night at Europes top table.

like United I guess Wenger will soon tell the Arsenal seniors he's retiring or having a crack at international management so will be forced to roll the dice. 

[kurtsimonw]

1 minute ago, Genie said:

I'm the opposite, they could easily slip back into the chasing CL pack with even a small dip in form and the new they'll be swamped with the likes of Spurs, Liverpool, Man United plus others. A couple of years out of the big time and they'll be dreaming of the days playing on a Tuesday night at Europes top table.

like United I guess Wenger will soon tell the Arsenal seniors he's retiring or having a crack at international management so will be forced to roll the dice. 

But they aren't really "in" the CL in terms of a competitive stand point anyway. They get some CL money, but not really the big money. Assuming they'd be a decent Europa League side, they'd probably lose £10m/£15m every year they're not in the CL. It's not going to break the club. So the downside is really missing £20m tops a season, and missing out on seeing them beat teams like Basel or CSKA before going out in the Ro16. The upside is to make more money than they're likely to lose on the downside, as well as the upside of actual competing further in to the CL and what that brings to the club and the fans. That and possible winning trophies more regularly.

[VillaChris]

8 hours ago, TrentVilla said:

I'm sure that they appreciate that possibility but a lot of them have reached the point they think it's time to take the gamble.

I think that time was 12-24 months ago personally, they really should have gone for Klopp.

Now it's hard to see who they could get. Simeone is the stand out option but highly unlikely to move given his previous comments.

 

I really couldn't see Simeone at Arsenal...do people not realise the extreme defensive football he plays at Atletico?

I think Simeone would be a better fit for Chelsea as they don't really care about about champagne football, just winning and he knows Costa and Courtois well. Simeone will manage Inter Milan next though.

Arsenal need to continue down the football purist route rather than completely change their style and go for a safety first coach. That's worked well for Man .United post Fergie hasn't it?

I'd go for Tuchel from Dortmund or a little left field Luciene Favre from Nice. Both would be a gamble but those teams play tremendous football and think they'd be good fits for a club that dosen't really win much anymore.

From big names I think Ancelotti would be a great choice but he's not going to leave Bayern for Arsenal so they'd need to get lucky with the timing.

[VillaChris]

5 hours ago, Czechlad said:

Is Xhaka a true DM though? I always thought he was more of a box to box type midfielder. More like Toni Kroos rather than someone like Busquets. I think Arsenal would've been better off signing Gustavo, Gonalons, Carvalho, Matuidi, or Diarra. 

Yeah Harvard Nordveitt was probably more of the DM at 'Gladbach (even though West Ham think he's a right back for some reason).

It's more muddled thinking from Wenger though, he already has Ramsey for box to box and in terms of DM not just Coquelin but El-Neny who is pretty average.

[Zatman]

Is it really just a DM they need. he needs a left back, a DM, 2 wingers, another centre midfielder and a top class striker. Sanchez and Giroud are capable but not top class, Sanchez is but not in that position.

Monreal, Ox, Walcott, Xhaka, Iwobi are decent players but not going win you titles

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, VillaChris said:

I really couldn't see Simeone at Arsenal...do people not realise the extreme defensive football he plays at Atletico?

I think Simeone would be a better fit for Chelsea as they don't really care about about champagne football, just winning and he knows Costa and Courtois well. Simeone will manage Inter Milan next though.

Arsenal need to continue down the football purist route rather than completely change their style and go for a safety first coach. That's worked well for Man .United post Fergie hasn't it?

I'd go for Tuchel from Dortmund or a little left field Luciene Favre from Nice. Both would be a gamble but those teams play tremendous football and think they'd be good fits for a club that dosen't really win much anymore.

From big names I think Ancelotti would be a great choice but he's not going to leave Bayern for Arsenal so they'd need to get lucky with the timing.

I think its time they became less idealistic and more pragmatic but its all a pointless debate as he isn't going any time soon.

[PieFacE]

Arsenal bottling it again?  Well that's a shocker.  

[kurtsimonw]

I know Trent posted overall stats that they don't always finish badly. But when they are in the hunt for the title, they really do.

15/16
First 20 games - 13 wins - 1st place
Last 18 games - 6 wins - finished 2nd

13/14
First 24 games - 17 wins - 1st place
Last 14 games - 7 wins - finished 4th

I think it's telling that these are the only 2 real times that they came all that close. Wenger rarely has them realistically challenging, when he does he bottles it badly.

[gharperr]

i know people hate hearing my thoughts when it comes to arsenal as they think im a "closet arsenal fan" or some bullshit...but ive always tried to say it how i seen it...


pieface earlier said "bottling title again"..i wouldnt say that...i would just say its regressing to the mean to how shit theyre playing the current season. (you could maybe argue about "bottling"). in recent couple months...they only played well against b'mourth second half and W'spam

lets no forget theyve got very very lucky in a lot of games where theres some unforgivable mistakes from the Ref which has got them extra 4 points more than they should (s'ton and burnley) before this previous downturn

im starting to believe whoever has less injuries to key players...wins the league...e.g lester last year...now chelsea....

the problem is that 7/11 players for arsenal seem to be "key players"...you take out one off sanchez..ozil..cazorla...mustafi..kos..coq...cech...even bellerin.....it just isnt the same free flowing attacking football that arsenal try to achieve...You take 1 "key player" from any side top 4 and it will "function" ok...but with arsenal...it just seems they need the top 11 side to compete to the very best and if you take 1 player out, the team as a whole just doesnt function....The subs they have are very very good squad players but just fail to integrate to the first 11.

it does still seem theyre struggling to replace cazorla...(lol at people calling xhaka box2box or dcm in the thread earlier) hes very CLEAR a DLP who has semi attributes to hold midfield (and he was to replace cazorla injury and future)....but apart from watford game earlier (if you watch this game you would think wow...maybe he has what it takes to be a proper DLP for a top side)...hes been poor. However he has only been in prem for less than 6 months and cazorla didnt play that well in his first appearances so i feel some are being too harsh.

the city game just showed how much they missed cazorla...cazorla is literally GOD at counter acting any kind of press. Man city last game pressed so well the arsenal midfield and defence struggled so hard to play in the second half...

which goes onto my thoughts on ozil...i feel ozil is being very very miss-harsh judged from the city game. Yes eyes test and stat test shows he was awful...But the whole arsenal defence and midfield literally couldnt play two passes together to bypass the press to the position ozil was playing. Xhaka was awful in the game and it isnt Coq job to do that.



tldr stats/analytics/eye test shows they wernt title contenders from the start

Edited December 22, 2016 by gharperr

[gharperr]

i know people hate hearing my thoughts when it comes to arsenal as they think im a "closet arsenal fan" or some bullshit...but ive always tried to say it how i seen it...


pieface earlier said "bottling title again"..i wouldnt say that...i would just say its regressing to the mean to how shit theyre playing the current season. (you could maybe argue about "bottling")

lets no forget theyve got very very lucky in a lot of games where theres some unforgivable mistakes from the Ref which has got them extra 4 points more than they should (s'ton and burnley) before this previous downturn

im starting to believe whoever has less injuries to key players...wins the league...e.g lester last year...now chelsea....

the problem is that 7/11 players for arsenal seem to be "key players"...you take out one off sanchez..ozil..cazorla...mustafi..kos..coq...cech...even bellerin.....it just isnt the same free flowing attacking football that arsenal try to achieve...You take 1 "key player" from any side top 4 and it will "function" ok...but with arsenal...it just seems they need the top 11 side to compete to the very best and if you take 1 player out, the team as a whole just doesnt function....The subs they have are very very good squad players but just fail to integrate to the first 11.

it does still seem theyre struggling to replace cazorla...(lol at people calling xhaka box2box or dcm in the thread earlier) hes very CLEAR a DLP who has semi attributes to hold midfield (and he was to replace cazorla injury and future)....but apart from watford game earlier (if you watch this game you would think wow...maybe he has what it takes to be a proper DLP)...hes been poor. However he has only been in prem for less than 6 months and cazorla didnt play that well in his first appearances so i feel some are being too harsh.

the city game just showed how much they missed cazorla...cazorla is literally GOD at counter acting any kind of press. Man city last game pressed so well the arsenal midfield and defence struggled so hard to play in the second half...

which goes onto my thoughts on ozil...i feel ozil is being very very miss-harsh judged from the city game. Yes eyes test and stat test shows he was awful...But the whole arsenal defence and midfield literally couldnt play two passes together to bypass the press to the position ozil was playing. Xhaka was awful in the game and it isnt Coq job to do that.



tldr stats/analytics/eye test shows they wernt title contenders from the start and back to fighting for champs league trophy

Edited December 22, 2016 by gharperr

[kurtsimonw]

Ozil is very much a luxury player and a bully though. When it's a tough game and you need everyone working hard, you may as well play with 10 men. In the past month he was completely invisible against Man U, PSG, Everton and City. But then looks superb against West Ham, Basel and Stoke. 

He's pretty much Arsenal the player. Great touches, excellent to watch at times. But when it comes down to really having to grind a result out or just play it a bit more simple, it doesn't happen.

[VillaChris]

On 22/12/2016 at 07:30, kurtsimonw said:

I know Trent posted overall stats that they don't always finish badly. But when they are in the hunt for the title, they really do.

15/16
First 20 games - 13 wins - 1st place
Last 18 games - 6 wins - finished 2nd

13/14
First 24 games - 17 wins - 1st place
Last 14 games - 7 wins - finished 4th

I think it's telling that these are the only 2 real times that they came all that close. Wenger rarely has them realistically challenging, when he does he bottles it badly.

Yep last season they were top in January, predictably lost form but then beat Leicester on Feb 14th and were just 5 points off Leicester at that stage. They followed that up with back to back defeats to Man. United youth's team and Swansea at home and Leicester got the gap up to 9 points.

Arsenal only really turned it on late in seasons when their top 4 place is in doubt.

07/08 and 10/11 were other seasons when they were in with a chance of the title around March and had really poor ends to the season.

[sne]

That's some goal by Giroud 

[TheAuthority]

3 minutes ago, sne said:

That's some goal by Giroud 

Absolutely fantastic - one of best I've seen for a while

[sne]

 

[Genie]

It's reminded me of one of the things that annoys me, like first weekend of the season someone will score a good goal and it's all "goal of the season scored on the first weekend..."

Very special goal though, extra points for coming off the bar Tony Yeboa stylee.