sharkyvilla Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 I've always thought Westalenstadion is the obvious blueprint. From this: To this By filling the corners but I'd keep the Holte End as standalone as possible. Villa Park wouldn't be able to get close to their capacity obviously but still get it between 50k and 60k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 12, 2021 Share Posted April 12, 2021 15 minutes ago, hippo said: Again wrong. Villa have no big reputation as troublesome fans. The increase in crime on matchdays was driven by car crime - that was the findings of the report. Read the report. Then I apologise on my error. The reports I was looking at was showing the incidents on match day vs non-match days. If you are saying the police report says different then they are the experts and I will defer to that. I’m still not convinced on your original argument on walking the gauntlet though, but if that’s how you feel then that’s how you feel. Maybe our backgrounds are different and I know the area and type of people but then again I don’t want to assume anything. I’ve never felt worried after a game at VP whereas I have at some away games at other grounds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 15 hours ago, sharkyvilla said: I've always thought Westalenstadion is the obvious blueprint. From this: To this By filling the corners but I'd keep the Holte End as standalone as possible. Villa Park wouldn't be able to get close to their capacity obviously but still get it between 50k and 60k. I dont think we would fill 50k week in week out. Only way that happens of is if we are challenging for europe 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post lexicon Posted April 13, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: I dont think we would fill 50k week in week out. Only way that happens of is if we are challenging for europe True. Our numbers have been terrible this season tbf. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ender4 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I dont think we would fill 50k week in week out. Only way that happens of is if we are challenging for europe Well we easily were filling 42,000 every game before the pandemic. And that’s was with virtually no tickets going on general sale, tickets were being snapped up by people who became members to get priority access. If there had been lots of spare seats, I could have brought another 3-6 casual supporters most weeks. That might be the case for a lot of people, as no casual supporters were getting any tickets. I think we could have easily filled another 8,000 seats during that season. Even though we lost most games. Post pandemic I’m unsure now, plus the excitement of being back in the Premier League might be less now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 Given the size of the city and our current support base getting 50,000 on a regular basis is a sensible target in the medium to long term. Providing we stay in the Premier League. And that the economy recovers. That would put us on par with Everton and Newcastle in the future. Not sure on 60,000 even if that was possible at Villa Park. West Ham suddenly managed to find another 20,000 supporters when they moved into their publicly paid for stadium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 25 minutes ago, ender4 said: Well we easily were filling 42,000 every game before the pandemic. And that’s was with virtually no tickets going on general sale, tickets were being snapped up by people who became members to get priority access. If there had been lots of spare seats, I could have brought another 3-6 casual supporters most weeks. That might be the case for a lot of people, as no casual supporters were getting any tickets. I think we could have easily filled another 8,000 seats during that season. Even though we lost most games. Post pandemic I’m unsure now, plus the excitement of being back in the Premier League might be less now. I think the last line is key. I said the same months back but even to get this seriously thought about it needs to be shown over a period that we can fill that otherwise it’s a waste of money. First season back to the PL was obviously going to do well, if we could’ve kept that going for a couple of seasons then definitely worthwhile but we’ll never know. Now we also have to see how post pandemic numbers turn out. I think we need to focus on the team investment first and get that right because we still have a lot to do there and plus 42,000 is still a decent stadium size even if we did get into Europe. That platform, money and more interested fans would then pay for the expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 13, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I think the last line is key. I said the same months back but even to get this seriously thought about it needs to be shown over a period that we can fill that otherwise it’s a waste of money. First season back to the PL was obviously going to do well, if we could’ve kept that going for a couple of seasons then definitely worthwhile but we’ll never know. Now we also have to see how post pandemic numbers turn out. I think we need to focus on the team investment first and get that right because we still have a lot to do there and plus 42,000 is still a decent stadium size even if we did get into Europe. That platform, money and more interested fans would then pay for the expansion. Stadium and infrastructure investment is separate from team investment. The owners can spend whatever they want on that, the can't spend whatever they want on the team die to FFP so it's not either/or. Bigger capacity and better corporate facilities however DOES enable us to spend more on the team. as it raises the FFP ceiling. We have 42,000 week in week out and a waiting list for season tickets of 10,000. You don't put yourself on a waiting list for a season ticket on a whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 23 hours ago, sidcow said: We already have 2 mainline Railway Stations which makes us as well connected as any club side. I have often thought what it would be like if Villa could buy the block of properties leading up from Witton Station to the North Stand. There could be a huge concourse leading up to the stadium.The effect this could have on attracting people to the stadium would be huge in my opinion. You wouldn’t need to be in Aston at all.You could just get on a train in Brum and get of actually inside the ground. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 41 minutes ago, sidcow said: Stadium and infrastructure investment is separate from team investment. The owners can spend whatever they want on that, the can't spend whatever they want on the team die to FFP so it's not either/or. Bigger capacity and better corporate facilities however DOES enable us to spend more on the team. as it raises the FFP ceiling. We have 42,000 week in week out and a waiting list for season tickets of 10,000. You don't put yourself on a waiting list for a season ticket on a whim. I wasnt talking about FFP but while you mention it, do interest payments not impact FFP? Despite all the investment of the owners are they going to spend hundreds of millions doing the stadium out of their own pocket or do it through debt? Maybe you know the answer, I dont know honestly. If like you'd expect they do it through debt especially given we have no debt at the moment then my question about interest payments? I dont know enough about FFP to know if interest payments are in or out of those calculations. If it's the owners own money are they really going to fork out for the next couple of seasons a couple hundred million on players and then a couple hundred million on stadium development. I love our owners but even that is expecting a little much on them. They want us to get to self sustaining eventually. I honestly understand your point of bigger means more but to get to bigger means bigger costs upfront from team, stadium and infrastructure and I think the owners are just focused on team at the moment with just minor changes on the stadium and infrastructure. As for the 42,000 week in and week out and waiting list....we had that for one part of the season. Our final season in the championship our average crowd size was 35,051, so then the excitment of our first season back in the top league was always going to be a blow out and a waiting list....the excitement was palpable, we were all on a high. The last two months do you think we would've had full houses (if not for the pandemic) with the football we've been playing.....maybe, probably but you know how Villa fans get. You dont make these kind of big changes until you see a consistent trend over a period and 6 months of sell outs isnt that in a business sense. Now add to that the pandemic, how it's impacted families who havent had income all year, or furloughed, or no overtime and maybe in debt, we will have to see how those crowds, season tickets and attendances start in 2021/22 season and maybe not back to any sort of normality until the following season. It doesnt make sense either from a trend of attendances (longer than six months) and the pandemic to increase the size of Villa park just yet. I desperately want it done, since a kid I've wanted that North Stand demolished and a massive new stand built that would probably at least increase our capacity by 10,000 and some of the corners filled in or better utilised and suddenly we are up to 55,000 but the maths dont make sense to do it yet because the initial investment is so high that if it was debt financed our team would suffer and thus you would have to rely on the owners solely to use their own money to fund that and the team, which while our owners are incredibly generous that is in the realms of crazy money. In terms of FFP, I'm not knowledgeable on that to understand the implications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 I will say this in the best possible way I can.. Villa park as it stands and what it looks like and everything it comes with has an amazing history, no doubt about that. From the league's right through to europe as a fan base and winning trophys it can never be taken away from anyone that's lived it or breathed it. Whether that person is still alive or they have passed they have a world of love and dedication towards a club they showed so much devotion for. None of it can ever be taken away from you or whoever supports Villa, the past lives in us all and I have learnt that most valuable lesson since the passing of many from my family. However- The show must go on as the saying goes. NSWE have plans and what ever there plans are if it can aid us in bringing back a new future if dominant football, I am all for it. If that includes a new look to the stadium, a complete new stadium, a massive injection into the team, then so be it. As a club we are evolving and these businessmen want what they poor into the club back and I can respect that. NSWE have given us fans a ray of sunshine to what could be a beaming hot paradise future. As a fan base if we try to hold back any development ideas they have what does that say about us, that were stuck in the past. I reckon if we were to ask any player, past or present who ever played/plays for Villa what there view is on all this, you may find a very warm outlook on all this development side. I'm pretty sure they would tell us, so long as there are more glory days and it helps bring back glory, trophys a bigger fan base, that the ground you stand and walk on at Villa park is there in your heart and the memory's will always be there regardless of the look of VP. We need to look to the future and am not saying don't look back, hold those memory's tight. So let's kick on together and accept whatever changes come so long as it's the right move and we start becoming a top club once more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 It would massively add value to the club if they redevelop Villa Park if in the future they decide to sell up. Purslow has made it clear that we are not leaving Villa Park. We have 75% of a very good ground with space to do something new. Can't see them scraping that and trying to find a new site. And until recently they have said nothing on redevelopment so this is the start of a long project. At the moment the vast majority of revenue comes in through tv and commercial deals, not gate receipts. However it perhaps might be sensible to invest in infrastructure to make us more resilient in the future if tv deals drop, a super league happens etc. The amount of money we have wasted on average players we could have probably built a new North Stand already lol. It would be more attractive for non football events as well such as concerts, american football, occasional rugby game. etc. The stadium is used about 20-25 times max a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-R Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 22 hours ago, hippo said: Again wrong. Villa have no big reputation as troublesome fans. The increase in crime on matchdays was driven by car crime - that was the findings of the report. Read the report. I think you will find that we as a fan base in the past have had some brutal wars in the hooligan days, that rep never goes away for any club especially when our influence and hooligans stretched as far as Europe and fighting over there.. It's all underground now, we don't hear about it anywhere near as much as what it were back then, Hooligans have gotten smarter with it all. You may hear of the odd reports nowadays at match days but I'm pretty sure the use of the darkweb allows them to communicate and make a location known easy enough. Police won't care one bit it's out the way of the public eye and isn't causing a media storm, so it won't even be classed as crime.. Just because we don't see it, hear about it, doesn't mean they still ain't still giving each other a good roughing up or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 On 12/04/2021 at 13:33, Follyfoot said: Some stadium that would be, the Holte would we circa 200,000, imagine the intimidation “WELCOME TO HELL YOU BASTARDS!!!!” 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 6 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I dont think we would fill 50k week in week out. Only way that happens of is if we are challenging for europe How do you work that one out we sold 30k of season tickets with a waiting list.... the demand is already there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 2 hours ago, sidcow said: Stadium and infrastructure investment is separate from team investment. The owners can spend whatever they want on that, the can't spend whatever they want on the team die to FFP so it's not either/or. Bigger capacity and better corporate facilities however DOES enable us to spend more on the team. as it raises the FFP ceiling. We have 42,000 week in week out and a waiting list for season tickets of 10,000. You don't put yourself on a waiting list for a season ticket on a whim. Exactly this, its really a call from the owners as to what they want to do with the club. If they are here long term it will pay back through the extra spending power it gives to whatever financial regulations there are when it is completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, paul514 said: How do you work that one out we sold 30k of season tickets with a waiting list.... the demand is already there First season back to the premiership and all the excitement, until that is shown a couple of seasons on the trot we'd have likely full houses against the big six but maybe nowhere near that for other teams depending on how we are playing and time/day of game. Plus the pandemic will have hurt the crowd sizes when we come back at least initially for a season or two because of people's finances. It also depends what we do on the pitch and how we are doing in the league 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 hour ago, nick76 said: I wasnt talking about FFP but while you mention it, do interest payments not impact FFP? Despite all the investment of the owners are they going to spend hundreds of millions doing the stadium out of their own pocket or do it through debt? Maybe you know the answer, I dont know honestly. If like you'd expect they do it through debt especially given we have no debt at the moment then my question about interest payments? I dont know enough about FFP to know if interest payments are in or out of those calculations. If it's the owners own money are they really going to fork out for the next couple of seasons a couple hundred million on players and then a couple hundred million on stadium development. I love our owners but even that is expecting a little much on them. They want us to get to self sustaining eventually. I honestly understand your point of bigger means more but to get to bigger means bigger costs upfront from team, stadium and infrastructure and I think the owners are just focused on team at the moment with just minor changes on the stadium and infrastructure. As for the 42,000 week in and week out and waiting list....we had that for one part of the season. Our final season in the championship our average crowd size was 35,051, so then the excitment of our first season back in the top league was always going to be a blow out and a waiting list....the excitement was palpable, we were all on a high. The last two months do you think we would've had full houses (if not for the pandemic) with the football we've been playing.....maybe, probably but you know how Villa fans get. You dont make these kind of big changes until you see a consistent trend over a period and 6 months of sell outs isnt that in a business sense. Now add to that the pandemic, how it's impacted families who havent had income all year, or furloughed, or no overtime and maybe in debt, we will have to see how those crowds, season tickets and attendances start in 2021/22 season and maybe not back to any sort of normality until the following season. It doesnt make sense either from a trend of attendances (longer than six months) and the pandemic to increase the size of Villa park just yet. I desperately want it done, since a kid I've wanted that North Stand demolished and a massive new stand built that would probably at least increase our capacity by 10,000 and some of the corners filled in or better utilised and suddenly we are up to 55,000 but the maths dont make sense to do it yet because the initial investment is so high that if it was debt financed our team would suffer and thus you would have to rely on the owners solely to use their own money to fund that and the team, which while our owners are incredibly generous that is in the realms of crazy money. In terms of FFP, I'm not knowledgeable on that to understand the implications. Yes it would count as spend if the owners didn’t fund it themselves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul514 Posted April 13, 2021 Share Posted April 13, 2021 1 minute ago, nick76 said: First season back to the premiership and all the excitement, until that is shown a couple of seasons on the trot we'd have likely full houses against the big six but maybe nowhere near that for other teams depending on how we are playing and time/day of game. Plus the pandemic will have hurt the crowd sizes when we come back at least initially for a season or two because of people's finances. It also depends what we do on the pitch and how we are doing in the league Design, planning and building will take years anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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