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Jareth

Promotion 2016/7

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1 minute ago, useless said:

I'm sure I read that when he got the WBA job he brought in about eighteen players.

I've read that as well.....but when you come down to naming those 18 you struggle ! - The general view from most WBA fans is that he got promoted largely with the squad he in inherited. So whether the 18 were fringe players, youth prospects, not sure. 

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While I wanted the mass exodus.  Still do.  I don't think it was ever likely.  You can't force teams to make offers on crap losers and you can't force crap losers to accept the low wages they actually deserve.  Personally, I would tell three "you will not play here again, feel free to find a way to salvage your dignity somewhere else. but you're banned from Villa property as of now. Best of luck."

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8 minutes ago, hippo said:

Yes - but its not going to be the mass exodus and influx that was predicted. To be fair thats never been RDM'S style. A striker and a wide man required for me.  Still think 7th or 8th. I just don't rate RDM that highly. I feel he will have the same problems Garde did.

 

I never predicted a mass exodus/influx. I took the stance and still hold the stance that such a thing under the circumstances is not viable. Which is why we will struggle for promotion. 

At the same time, I won't be criticising them for not doing something I couldn't realistically expect them to do. 

I don't think RDM's situation is anything like the one Garde found himself in, Roberto has the opportunity to add to the squad and he has his own back room staff. His problem will be the monumental amount of work that needs to be done, whereas Garde was simply the wrong man at the wrong time. 

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12 minutes ago, hippo said:

I just don't rate RDM that highly. I feel he will have the same problems Garde did.

 

Remi Garde's biggest problem was Randy Lerner. RDM does not have this as a problem 

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Just now, dont_do_it_doug. said:

I never predicted a mass exodus/influx. I took the stance and still hold the stance that such a thing under the circumstances is not viable. Which is why we will struggle for promotion. 

At the same time, I won't be criticising them for not doing something I couldn't realistically expect them to do. 

I don't think RDM's situation is anything like the one Garde found himself in, Roberto has the opportunity to add to the squad and he has his own back room staff. His problem will be the monumental amount of work that needs to be done, whereas Garde was simply the wrong man at the wrong time. 

Really ? - I think RDM will struggle to get 100% out of the players when the going gets tough. Sure he can add to the squad (to what extent we aren't not sure) - conversely Garde had no departures to deal with. 

There is a lot of dross in that division, which should propel us to 7th or 8th place -beyond that, RDM needs to excel  to squeeze more from his staff - I really don't see it.

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3 minutes ago, Mr.Messy said:

Remi Garde's biggest problem was Randy Lerner. RDM does not have this as a problem 

That and awful demeanour.

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Obviously depending on how one defines a 'mass' exodus or influx over and above normal transfer dealings, I must say I do kind of expect both.  Whether that's good or not is debateable.  On one hand you go into the season with practically no cohesion, but on the other hand you go in without the losing mentality that the current squad will have acquired this past year.  I expect players to leave who we don't want to leave and I expect we will sell players we don't want.  I don't expect to replace all of them, because RDM is already on record as saying the squad is too big.  So I think we replace the players we didn't want to sell, and promote youth for the dross that we've shipped.  Where that leaves us in the league depends on so many other variables.

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The team can look hugely different not just with new signings but by using players who didn't get much of a chance last season, promoting youth like Green, and I'm expecting more from the French guys if they stay, having had a year to settle and now hopefully being part of better set-up. All this together with five or six arrivals, things can look very different.

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24 minutes ago, useless said:

I'm sure I read that when he got the WBA job he brought in about eighteen players.

According to Wikipedia, 6 players in the summer that he got the job.

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2 minutes ago, useless said:

The team can look hugely different not just with new signings but by using players who didn't get much of a chance last season, promoting youth like Green, and I'm expecting more from the French guys if they stay, having had a year to settle and now hopefully being part of better set-up. All this together with five or six arrivals, things can look very different.

Completely agree.  Although my "players [that] leave who we don't want to leave" includes a healthy dose of French.

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4 minutes ago, bobzy said:

According to Wikipedia, 6 players in the summer that he got the job.

And Soccerbase has 5 in and 4 out that summer.

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15 minutes ago, hippo said:

Really ? - I think RDM will struggle to get 100% out of the players when the going gets tough. Sure he can add to the squad (to what extent we aren't not sure) - conversely Garde had no departures to deal with. 

There is a lot of dross in that division, which should propel us to 7th or 8th place -beyond that, RDM needs to excel  to squeeze more from his staff - I really don't see it.

Garde had no departures to deal with, but I bet he wished he had. Garde took over a team rock bottom of the premier league, without his staff and was hung out to dry in January despite gathering a decent bit of momentum through it. I cannot see how the two situations are even remotely similar, sorry. 

Massively off topic too I think!

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The game against Wednesday is very important, its also one of the most difficult we could have had.

I'm not convinced promotion is at all relastic this season unless 6 first team players are brought in and that would take 30-40m. 

Last season the players we still have showed they are not strong enough in character or good enough on the pitch to beat other teams, regardless of how poor they were . Mid table 

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41 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Garde had no departures to deal with, but I bet he wished he had. Garde took over a team rock bottom of the premier league, without his staff and was hung out to dry in January despite gathering a decent bit of momentum through it. I cannot see how the two situations are even remotely similar, sorry. 

Massively off topic too I think!

must have missed that bit 

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We all know we have a Team of Losers.  The football world knows it.  It is inconceivable (to me) that RDM has just looked at players training well - over a couple of days - and assessed what he needs from that.

It surely must be the case that he has studied videos, talked to Sid, Little,(not Syd Little !), talked with Clarke and Bond (who will presumably have watched us the last couple of years )  and goodness knows what else.  I just can't imagine he hasn't done his own character assessments as well as ability assessments. Also, whilst it pains me to give them excuses, we probably have some players with more character than has been evident recently.  Some of them may just have been ground down too much but still be capable, with a whole new environment, to come back better.

His job and reputation are at stake as much as anything.  He has an owner who has promised money. 

And I'm absolutely sure he knows how long it takes to get a squad to 'gel'.  So will be more than aware of the need to get some in, get some out, and the time period in which he needs to do it.

We have already seen (despite it being called 2 kids and a Cb which is of course literally true)) 3 signings.  They wont have happened without decisions, calls, meetings, negotiations.  There is no way they can all happen at once.

Given all that I am more relaxed about our current position than seems to be the case with most on here.  I just don't think it even remotely likely that, given the go-ahead to improve the Squad, that RDM will not do it. 

Now, to me, the only obvious factor is who is available.  Despite saying how poor we are I think if viewed calmly it is actually likely that a good number of our current squad would get into Championship sides.  But the question is would they get in a top Championship side.  If not, they need to go, but if they would, then we can keep them.  That may be more than we realise.  Maybe, with a couple of the better youngsters, we have 10-15 who could (including the new 3 ).  One only has to look at the Euros to see examples of lower League players performing to a much higher standard (yes, only temporarily in a Cup I agree) to see that some of our views on some of our players may well be unwittingly overly negative.

That could easily mean RDM only needing another 4-5 players, and needing to ship out around the same amount.

Now the local market for those 4/5 players is limited.  They will need to be Premier League players who can't get a start  (Elphick,Bamford) or good players who are in a Championship side which is considered (by the player) less likely to push for Promotion than we are. Or, of course, from the continent.

We are very  likely to be in competition with 2/3 other Clubs over each of the UK base dplayers, at least, , so will also need further 2nd and 3rd choices from the continent.  It is not likely we will take these alternatives until we know we have lost out on first choices, so patience will be needed.

If at the end of it he has 6 players from last year starting against Sheff Wed, and the 3 guys we have signed, who may have had a month by then, with a striker and another m/f making the 11, that wont be too much to 'gel'.

 

Edited by terrytini
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1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

Garde had no departures to deal with, but I bet he wished he had. Garde took over a team rock bottom of the premier league, without his staff and was hung out to dry in January despite gathering a decent bit of momentum through it. I cannot see how the two situations are even remotely similar, sorry. 

Massively off topic too I think!

Basically I believe in both scenarios the manager won't be able to get the players to perform.

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2 hours ago, Grasshopper said:

Promotion?

Would love it

champions?

no. we dont have a winning mentality

2nd?

no. We're not good enough (yet)

Playoffs?

our best chance as once we are settled a good end of season run might make 6th

One thing in our favour is that the top 10-12 will be so condensed many draws may occur allowing us a slow start and still not being too far behind 6th

It is vital that we get promoted this season. I accept that it would be a big ask if we had the same owner, manager and team that we had last season but the first two have changed and I anticipate there will be 4 or more new players to add to the majority of the ones that RDM wants to keep. 

We need a solid start to build a winning mentality. Neither Newcastle or Norwich have one to carry forward as they went down as did we although a couple of weeks later than we did. We should aim to end the season above at least one of these two teams and all of the teams that were outside the PL last season and still are. I do not accept as yet that this will be beyond us. I see a place in the lottery that is the play-off's as something that Small Heath or Wolves fans might hope for at this stage rather than something that we should aim or settle for.    

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