Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Being Polite and Respectful no matter what you think of the Institution doesn't cost a lot. Flag's and Anthems deserve the respect we demand for ours IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 can you imagine moving house, taking a shit on your neighbours doorstep before you go and then blaming your old neighbor for being unfair when he doesn't let you borrow his mower anymore that's the Brexit party Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 For the majority of these clearings in the woods, becoming an MEP is not only a huge achievement but a massive pay rise. And that's how they act? Utterly ashamed to be from the UK. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: If they could have the time again I suspect the EU would have given the UK a slightly better WA. They misjudged it I think, in that they thought a real bad deal would eventually unravel Brexit and get a 2nd ref done a while ago which seemed a logical point of view. A bit of a better deal and get it all done would have been better but they didn't know half of the commons are words removed at the time. (We did). + If Trump wins again, anything can happen at that point. EU tariffs for sure on cars etc, things will get bumpy and the EU will still be messing around with Brexit. I take massive issue with this...Forgive me if I've misjudged your Brexit position.... 1. The WA was designed in a way that was compatible with the Uk 'red lines' while respecting the Good Friday Agreement and the EU's own laws/rules governing trade which are there for everyone to look up. 2. They didn't impose a "bad deal" on us...The WA is the result of everything discussed in point 1. It's a negotiation. If you have a problem with it, then you should be apportioning at least 50% of the blame of it to the UK side. 3. You state that the EU has a secret agenda to keep us in the EU by making this deal as bad as possible. Notwithstanding option 1 and 2, if the politicians had voted that agreement through we would have left. It's not their fault that the result of 2 years negotiation was rejected by your elected representatives. The vast vast majority of the "Remain supporting" MP's voted for it. The "Leave supporting" ones didn't...it's their fault we aren't out. 4. There's no such thing as a "good deal". It's all bad. Every major forecast tells us we'll be worse off, if we aren't already as a result of this **** mess. I can't believe people are still buying the crap. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2019 59 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Children What an utterly embarrassing bunch of words removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: It's not their fault that the result of 2 years negotiation was rejected by your elected representatives. If you look at his username, I don't necessarily think it was rejected by his elected representatives... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, ml1dch said: If you look at his username, I don't necessarily think it was rejected by his elected representatives... Good Point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 He's British living in the Netherlands AFAIR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Children Understandable criticism of this on this thread, but 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form. It's probably redundant to say that I agree with the criticism implied in the most famous case of anthem-kneeling in recent times, and don't agree with the criticism implied in this anthem-back-turning, but either both are reasonable forms of protest or neither are. I don't love demands that people 'show respect' to flags and anthems. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 52 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: You state that the EU has a secret agenda to keep us in the EU by making this deal as bad as possible It's more that they have been open about preferring that we stay, and also (quite reasonably) that no form of leaving can result in better arrangements than remaining, because that would amount to self-harm on their part. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Understandable criticism of this on this thread, but 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form. It's probably redundant to say that I agree with the criticism implied in the most famous case of anthem-kneeling in recent times, and don't agree with the criticism implied in this anthem-back-turning, but either both are reasonable forms of protest or neither are. I don't love demands that people 'show respect' to flags and anthems. Would be intrigued to know what the Brexit Party have against the EU specifically. What are they protesting here? Surely they're just concerned with the UK being "out of it" and, therefore, are being disrespectful for the sake of being disrespectful? Edited July 2, 2019 by bobzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Understandable criticism of this on this thread, but 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form. It's probably redundant to say that I agree with the criticism implied in the most famous case of anthem-kneeling in recent times, and don't agree with the criticism implied in this anthem-back-turning, but either both are reasonable forms of protest or neither are. I don't love demands that people 'show respect' to flags and anthems. It's not the form of protest that I disagree with. It's just embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imavillan Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 I don't think turning your back is the right thing to do and as has been mentioned is childish and makes them a bunch of words removed !!!! But, imo, this also makes this lot a bunch of children and words removed, but strangely enough this is getting now where near the coverage in the press/media. I suppose this is what brexit has made of politics and our politicians today !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 2, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Understandable criticism of this on this thread, but 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form. It's probably redundant to say that I agree with the criticism implied in the most famous case of anthem-kneeling in recent times, and don't agree with the criticism implied in this anthem-back-turning, but either both are reasonable forms of protest or neither are. I don't love demands that people 'show respect' to flags and anthems. In this case, it's not victims of, oppression or discrimination, or supporters of the oppressed doing the protest gesture. It's actual **** members of the European parliament acting like bell ends, because they're simply bell ends. It's not principled protest, it's just effwittage. (all IMO, natch). "Backgammons", as was said on that twitter. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, imavillan said: I don't think turning your back is the right thing to do and as has been mentioned is childish and makes them a bunch of words removed !!!! But, imo, this also makes this lot a bunch of children and words removed, but strangely enough this is getting now where near the coverage in the press/media. I suppose this is what brexit has made of politics and our politicians today !!!!! Agreed. It just feel like we're exporting our little nervous breakdown to Europe and insisting that everybody make everything all about us. Turn up and do you job, rather than turning the whole thing into a look-at-me circus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2019 50 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Understandable criticism of this on this thread, but 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form. It's probably redundant to say that I agree with the criticism implied in the most famous case of anthem-kneeling in recent times, and don't agree with the criticism implied in this anthem-back-turning, but either both are reasonable forms of protest or neither are. I don't love demands that people 'show respect' to flags and anthems. It's not the form of protest for me, it's more the forum and the people involved. Same goes for the T Shirts by the way. And I agree with that message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 38 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: 'turning your back during an anthem to protest it' and 'kneeling during an anthem to protest it' are not obviously massively different in form The form of the protests is similar in that both involve an anthem, but the context and meaning are very different. The kneeling incident was about drawing attention to a concern, while the back-turning seems more about showing disrespect to, and rejecting, an institution that the protesters have chosen to be part of (and to take the pay). The kneeling protest was portrayed as disrespect for his country by people who disapproved of him drawing attention to the issue, but it's been made clear it wasn't about that. If Kapernick had been protesting about the existence of the game that paid his wages or the fact of being organised in a league, that would be a very close comparison, but as it is, they feel pretty different to me. Another thing is that one feels dignified and powerful, while the other seems petty, embarrassing and churlish, though I'd be interested to see how they are regarded by people who don't have strong feelings on the issues or the people concerned. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 2, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 I really don't have any problem on the turning your back on the anthem thing I never stand for God Save the Queen I kind of agree with the kneeling during the US anthem I disagree with their logic (or lack thereof) but I can't say anything other than people have the right to protest On the TShirts thing I notice that of the LieDems only one was wearing a Bollocks to Brexit T=Shirt, yet it's being reported as all of them 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Can't imagine where they got the idea from... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choffer Posted July 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: I really don't have any problem on the turning your back on the anthem thing I never stand for God Save the Queen I kind of agree with the kneeling during the US anthem I disagree with their logic (or lack thereof) but I can't say anything other than people have the right to protest I can’t say I disagree with much of that (although I do stand for GSTQ) but can you imagine the storm that they’d whip up if a European politician turned their back on the English national anthem? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts