ml1dch Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 23 minutes ago, bickster said: It makes sense, even for Labour, who realistically stand no chance, taking one off the Tory numbers is probably more important to them in the current circumstances. I am shocked at the pragmatic approach. That is if Labour are involved in this They won't be. It'll be the Greens standing aside and not fielding a candidate for relatively decent reasons, whatever the CUKTIGs are called now not being able to even find someone willing to be their candidate, Labour explaining how their fourth place finish shows how the country is desperate for whatever they're peddling if only they'd realise it and vote for it, and Farage using it an opportunity to whip up the crowd at the local Wetherspoons before slinking home when he realises he's going to lose again. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted June 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted June 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, ml1dch said: at the local Wetherspoons Largest constituency in England and Wales and there's only one Wetherspoons (in Brecon) which I also reckon would be at the Remain end iof the constituency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 The last time the EU did a trade deal? Wasn't it yesterday? Or possibly the day before. NB this guy gets paid actual money for writing this stuff. Astonishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 2, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 All part of the switch the blame narrative. Blame the EU, couldnt possibly be our fault. We're British you know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, bickster said: All part of the switch the blame narrative. Blame the EU, couldnt possibly be our fault. We're British you know! Yep, we've all been predicting this for years. If/when Brexit happens and it's PROBABLY a disaster, people will blame the EU or the Tories for doing a shit job, rather than actually realising/admitting that it's a shit thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Oh yes, every chance that every pro brexit politician will be lining up in a couple of years time and saying one of these two things: 1. I've always been very clear that if only they'd painted the unicorn my shade of pink everything would have been fine. or 2.0 I've been very clear we must leave by April 1st 2021 or we will look like we haven't got a scooby **** doo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, bickster said: All part of the switch the blame narrative. Blame the EU, couldnt possibly be our fault. We're British you know! If they could have the time again I suspect the EU would have given the UK a slightly better WA. They misjudged it I think, in that they thought a real bad deal would eventually unravel Brexit and get a 2nd ref done a while ago which seemed a logical point of view. A bit of a better deal and get it all done would have been better but they didn't know half of the commons are words removed at the time. (We did). + If Trump wins again, anything can happen at that point. EU tariffs for sure on cars etc, things will get bumpy and the EU will still be messing around with Brexit. Edited July 2, 2019 by Amsterdam_Neil_D 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 22 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: If they could have the time again I suspect the EU would have given the UK a slightly better WA. Better in what way? The DWA is the consequence of what the UK has said are it's priorities. There isn't really better or worse, it's just what this dimwitted idea looks like when you expose it to reality. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, ml1dch said: UK has said are it's priorities. I think we have found the problem captain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 2, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 28 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: I suspect the EU would have given the UK a slightly better WA The WA was drawn up to our red lines not theirs, it is purely a consequence of our governments actions, whether they be now (bad) or in the past with things like the GFA (good) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 1 minute ago, bickster said: The WA was drawn up to our red lines not theirs, it is purely a consequence of our governments actions, whether they be now (bad) or in the past with things like the GFA (good) As well as the red lines, there was the political imperative that any form of leaving couldn't be better than staying, so between the two things I'm not sure there was a great deal of room for the EU giving much in the way of a better deal. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amsterdam_Neil_D Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 OK, thanks all. Maybe the red lines were wrong ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 2, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: OK, thanks all. Maybe the red lines were wrong ? Thats not down to the EU though and the huge red line is part of the GFA, just a small matter that keeps the peace in NI 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 2, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 47 minutes ago, bickster said: The WA was drawn up to our red lines not theirs, it is purely a consequence of our governments actions, whether they be now (bad) or in the past with things like the GFA (good) Well yes, to an extent. But the EU was in a very strong position and used it well, in their own interests, as they percieved them at the time. I think Neil's right that if they went back in time, their interests might change a bit, with hindsight. It was our delusion and terrible, half arsed efforts by the likes of David Davis, but the EU taking advantage of that has also potentially come back to bite them a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, blandy said: I think Neil's right that if they went back in time, their interests might change a bit, with hindsight. But change what? It's not a case of making it better or worse, it's the consequence of the UK decision. Their two main priorities are, in order 1) preserve the structures that underpin the Single Market and 2) try not to dick Ireland over. The rest don't really care about the second one, but if one of their fellow members does then they'll fall in behind them. All the other stuff comes behind those two things. The principles of the current DWA are the only way to do that - there's no part of it that has been stuck in there to screw over the UK or make it deliberately worse for us. Edited July 2, 2019 by ml1dch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 2, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted July 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, ml1dch said: But change what? It's not a case of making it better or worse, it's the consequence of the UK decision. Their two main priorities are, in order 1) preserve the structures that underpin the Single Market and 2) try not to dick Ireland over. The rest don't really care about the second one, but if one of their fellow members does then they'll fall in behind them. All the other stuff comes behind those two things. The principles of the current DWA are the only way to do that - there's no part of it that has been stuck in there to screw over the UK or make it deliberately worse for us. Don't get me wrong, I'm not balming the EU. It's totally the fault of the Unicorn sellers over here. The halfwit tories doing the negotiating. The ridiculous red lines, the No deal is better than a bad deal stuff - all mental. The NI border - we were saying it all before the referendum, that it was an impossible circle to square. It's all so predicatable. But, my point is, I suppose, that because we were so useless, so red-liney, the deal disadvantages the UK to such an extent that it's not been passed by parliament. So if the deal was better, then it might have got through and then the torment would be over. SO the EU may regret aspects of it, where they (naturally) took advantage of our ineptitude. SOme of the hard lines they took, could have been softer, had they wished. I'll come back to which later. GTG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) so Brexit party MP david bull took to social media to moan about the time and inconvenience it was causing him to travel to Strasbourg to do his job... 4 trains, 8+ hours travel time rightfully he's been absolutely slaughtered, for a start 3 of the trains and changes at various stations are in the UK, the majority of his travelling is in the UK people not only voted for this **** some actually agree with him that its stupid that he has to travel there edit - train number 1 is from Ipswich to London, that would be david bull born in London, lives in Ipswich, former MP for brighton, Brexit party representative of the north west Edited July 2, 2019 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted July 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 2, 2019 2 hours ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said: OK, thanks all. Maybe the red lines were wrong ? Seriously though, as @bickster says, the red lines are purely down to us and what the government assumed were the reasons why people voted for brexit. Complete and utter fabrication of issues that only serve the Conservative Party's agenda, they are not in the interest of the country or the people that live in it. Completely bonkers and one of the main reasons why we have got into the mess that no deal remains on the table, somehow. Think now it is more around stubbornness and nobody wanting to admit they are wrong. Instead everyone seems to be doubling down, which makes any form of compromise even more difficult. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Children Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 4 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Children words removed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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