peterms Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: grrrr , lets just agree that you know what I meant even if i didn't write it I admit I knew exactly what you meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It does make me laugh, that no deal'ers state that No Deal is the only Brexit, without grasping the reality that by adopting No Deal they lose the mandate, or 'will of the people' they love to rabbit on about. As far as I know - and I don't know for sure and wouldn't claim to - leave don't agree on leave. So what does leave mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, ChrisVillan said: As far as I know - and I don't know for sure and wouldn't claim to - leave don't agree on leave. So what does leave mean? If you ask the top brass, it now means No Deal. But it never did, and the moving of the goalposts over 3 years to make it so, is masterful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, StefanAVFC said: If you ask the top brass, it now means No Deal. But it never did, and the moving of the goalposts over 3 years to make it so, is masterful. Isn't it, though. Bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, desensitized43 said: Presumably with Remain on the ballot... as per previous posts on this , I'm not sure how you can ... more than one option of leave v one option of remain ... there is only going to be one winner a GE is the only real way to resolve the leave v remain option now ... a Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 minute ago, tonyh29 said: as per previous posts on this , I'm not sure how you can ... more than one option of leave v one option of remain ... there is only going to be one winner a GE is the only real way to resolve the leave v remain option now ... a No it isn't...If it was a PR system then I would entirely agree it's the way forward...it's not. Our system wasn't designed for this. If you want remain who do you vote for? Labour? Lib Dem? Green? Change? SNP? Plaid? Presumably you're (correctly) against a "Remain vs more than 1 leave option" because you know that would split the leave voters and Remain would walk it. It would and you're right to be against it. The GE option does EXACTLY the same thing - I suspect you know that and it's why you're suggesting it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: as per previous posts on this , I'm not sure how you can ... more than one option of leave v one option of remain ... there is only going to be one winner a GE is the only real way to resolve the leave v remain option now ... a Isn't a general election leave v leave? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 9, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: the moving of the goalposts over 3 years to make it so, is masterful. I know what you mean, but it's not genuinely masterful, it's genuinely pathetic, but because there's basically been no coherent media or opposition challenge to the weaseling and creep, and throbbing going on, no exposure of it, it's got the appearance of being masterful. In any other situation (say after an election) the media would be going back and saying like with tuition fees and the LDS"You lied, didn't you" repeatedly, over and over again. and no one would trust the throbbers for a decade or so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Success or failure depends what the project sponsor asked for surely? Been really good at whipping up hatred and division where there is none for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Corbyn finally says something that interests me about brexit and I like it. About bloody time it's only taking 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted July 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said: Could go in either thread but New attacks. Absolute disaster. I'm old enough to remember when Obama voicing an opinion, that Brexit would be unwise, was considered an outrageous interference in our politics by Conservatives. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2019 16 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Corbyn finally says something that interests me about brexit and I like it. About bloody time it's only taking 3 years. Did you see if his fingers were crossed? Too little too late and a complete and utter fudge of a position again. read beyond the headlines 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, bickster said: Did you see if his fingers were crossed? Too little too late and a complete and utter fudge of a position again. read beyond the headlines I have read beyond the headlines he says he will vote against it if a bad deal or no deal. Says put it to the people. I am not a fan of Corbyn but I agree with him here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 9, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, Demitri_C said: I have read beyond the headlines he says he will vote against it if a bad deal or no deal. Says put it to the people. I am not a fan of Corbyn but I agree with him here Did you read the bit about if theres a General Election and miraculously Labour win and renegotiate the deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Just now, bickster said: Did you read the bit about if theres a General Election and miraculously Labour win and renegotiate the deal? Oh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seat68 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 So for this unicorn do we need a GE to be called, Labour to win, Labour to renegotiate, Parliament to approve the renegotiation, then the renegotiation vs remain to be on a ballot for the people to decide, then if the renegotiation to be approved by the people then the EU to approve it. Are those the hopes that Corbyn suggest we jump through? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 3 hours ago, tonyh29 said: as per previous posts on this , I'm not sure how you can ... more than one option of leave v one option of remain ... there is only going to be one winner a GE is the only real way to resolve the leave v remain option now ... a Johnson's fantasy version that doesn't exist versus Corbyn's fantasy version that doesn't exist? How does that solve the question any more than the 2017 election solved the question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 51 minutes ago, Seat68 said: So for this unicorn do we need a GE to be called, Labour to win, Labour to renegotiate, Parliament to approve the renegotiation, then the renegotiation vs remain to be on a ballot for the people to decide, then if the renegotiation to be approved by the people then the EU to approve it. Are those the hopes that Corbyn suggest we jump through? Considering that Labour aren't the government, it's hard to see what more they can do than say what they would do if they were in power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 9, 2019 Author Moderator Share Posted July 9, 2019 15 hours ago, Demitri_C said: I have read beyond the headlines he says he will vote against it if a bad deal or no deal. Says put it to the people. I am not a fan of Corbyn but I agree with him here It's still a fudge, because it takes no account of reality. It's not addressing the actual situation we're in. at all. He's still sitting on the fence, he's just switched cheeks is all. The reality is there's a terrible deal on the table, the one negotiated by May. Remainers, Leavers, everyone thinks it stinks, because it brings no advantages and many disadvantages - even Brexiters say it's worse than remaining. That's how bad it is. The only possible alternatives to that terrible deal are No deal (catastrophically bad) or Remain. Assuming (big if, here) Labour isn't terminally wrecked (actually, I suspect it is) the only possible option for Labour, or anyone sane, given the choice outlined is "Campaign to Remain". Labour's voters, suppoerters, members and MPs are all overwhelmingly pro remain. The country (UK) is now pro remain. Any other stance than unequivocal remain is politically dumb for Labour. It may be too late, they may already have lost the trust of all those remainy momentumites - the younger people who used to like Corbyn until they realised he is a word removed, too. All the options are poo. Remain is the least poo. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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