The now-enacted will of (some of) the people

[LondonLax]

Just now, Risso said:

It was the busiest get away for years, with the schools having broken up and lots more trips to Europe being booked from cancelled trips during the pandemic. The queues were caused by a) lots of people all heading to Europe at the same time, b) insufficient existing infrastructure, and especially c) not nearly enough staff. The time it takes to stamp a passport having given it a cursory glance is hardly anything more than just giving it a cursory glance in the first place, if at all.

You do also need to ask Brits a bunch of questions now that you didn’t before. Things like ‘How long are you staying?’ ‘What address are you staying at?’ ‘Do you have a return ticket to travel home on within x number of days (depending on the number of days left in your visitor visa)’ etc

As an Australian these are the questions we get when we travel to the EU as well. 

It takes way longer in the non EU queue for us with Aussie passports than it does for those in the EU passport queue. 

[Straggler]

1 hour ago, Genie said:

There’s also the contradiction in thinking that I don’t think the classic Brexiteer realises.

1) We want to be out, we don’t want EU rules or influence over us.

2) We don’t to do a deal, hard brexit, cut all ties.

3) We don’t expect how we travel, work, trade or live in the EU to be negatively impacted. 

They are completely incompatible. We could never have a hard Brexit, and also a special arrangement with the EU that maintains some/all of the benefits of membership.

I totally agree, but how on earth do they not realise the contradiction?  It's not like this is cracking the Higgs Bosun, it's a straight line of logic that is so plainly obvious that to not see it takes an effort of considerable will.  The day May drew her red lines, it was an impossible/contradictory ask.  I remember my WTF thoughts at the time, yet on they stumbled into the inevitable failure.  Thanos will have to be downgraded to "reasonably probable" in the face of the inevitable failure of Brexit.  How do people who fell for this nonsense and still continue to support it manage to make a living?  I don't see how people can manage a household budget or raise a child if you are willing to buy every bag of magic beans that is waved under your nose.

It's - I want to have an athletic body, but live on Pringles and Dairy Milk, I want to do a space walk but don't want the helmet, it's bitching about not winning a prize in a competition I didn't enter.  Sorry I'm just venting now, but FFS saying you want to end freedom of movement then being pissed off/surprised that we are not free to move too is so freaking dumb.  I don't get how this wasn't obvious before the vote, I'm struggling even more now with the evidence clogging up our streets and hurting GDP more than the damn pandemic (ONS said that, the people that run the numbers for the fricking govt) how this is still even a question. 

But here we are and it's so screwed up that even in opposition you can't say out loud that Brexit is crap.  No, Labour are going to "make it work". I didn't believe it when Boris said it and I don't believe it when Starmer says it.  It is fantasy.  The ONS said that every single form of Brexit makes us poorer.  Everyone who supports it, supports that basic fact.  Bloomin Labour are going on about focusing on growth and making Brexit work, which brings us right back round to completely incompatible agendas again.

Ending free movement was point number one in the official govt Brexit Benefits document! The biggest benefit, the headline, the star of the show and somehow enough people thought that it just meant ending freedom of movement for other people. This was of course the same document that had to pad out the benefits with blue passports, imperial measurements and sticking a pic of a crown on your pint glass.  So the biggest benefit turns out to be FUBAR, so what do we have left?  The sum total of diddly squat and piss all. 

Seriously, anyone who has not read the Brexit benefits doc, I would recommend it.  Like so much that the Tories do, it is a parody in its original form.

Brexit BS

Quote

There are a great many benefits to Brexit: control of our democracy, borders and waters;
control of our own money, helping us to level up across the country; the freedom to
regulate in a more proportionate and agile way that works for our great British businesses;
benefits for people that put money back in their pockets, improve their rights and choices
as consumers and give them access to better healthcare; the ability to shape a better
environment as we achieve net zero by 2050; enhanced welfare standards for our animals;
and a Britain that is truly global once again, with its own seat in international fora, reaching
out and agreeing new trade deals and strategic partnerships.

Above is the first paragraph and contrast that with us burning 10's of thousands of pigs, a broken under resourced NHS, the widest gap in wealth between rich and poor in history, the new high speed rail linking the north and south stopping in the midlands, net zero by 2050 ignored by the 2 candidates vying for the top job, the agricultural trade deal with Australia making our farmers worse off, fishermen going broke because they cannot sell their catches in EU ports and the freedom to regulate in a more proportionate way that works for us meaning serious discussion about removing ourselves from human rights legislation and ending the freedom to protest noisily, and finally we can't get on a ferry to go on holiday because we insisted on more border security.  This stuff I can reel off from the top of my head.

Brexit benefits my arse.

Want to watch the economy bounce?  Get in power and promise to rejoin the EU.

[Genie]

5 minutes ago, Straggler said:

totally agree, but how on earth do they not realise the contradiction?  It's not like this is cracking the Higgs Bosun, it's a straight line of logic that is so plainly obvious that to not see it takes an effort of considerable will.

I actually think the answer is that Brexiteers believed the EU would throw all the membership benefits at us and we’d also be able to maintain full freedom. 

Remember it was sold as “no downsides, only upsides”. Despite the career bullshitters saying it, and the EU saying it wouldn’t happen people still went with it.

7 minutes ago, Straggler said:

Above is the first paragraph and contrast that with us burning 10's of thousands of pigs, a broken under resourced NHS, the widest gap in wealth between rich and poor in history, the new high speed rail linking the north and south stopping in the midlands, net zero by 2050 ignored by the 2 candidates vying for the top job, the agricultural trade deal with Australia making our farmers worse off, fishermen going broke because they cannot sell their catches in EU ports and the freedom to regulate in a more proportionate way that works for us meaning serious discussion about removing ourselves from human rights legislation and ending the freedom to protest noisily, and finally we can't get on a ferry to go on holiday because we insisted on more border security.  This stuff I can reel off from the top of my head.

You forgot to mention we can now legally dump as much untreated sewerage into our rivers as we like, win!

[Risso]

19 minutes ago, LondonLax said:

You do also need to ask Brits a bunch of questions now that you didn’t before. Things like ‘How long are you staying?’ ‘What address are you staying at?’ ‘Do you have a return ticket to travel home on within x number of days (depending on the number of days left in your visitor visa)’ etc

As an Australian these are the questions we get when we travel to the EU as well. 

It takes way longer in the non EU queue for us with Aussie passports than it does for those in the EU passport queue. 

Nobody asks those questions though. It's not happening.

[sidcow]

2 hours ago, Genie said:

They are completely incompatible. We could never have a hard Brexit, and also a special arrangement with the EU that maintains some/all of the benefits of membership.

That's not what Boris told us. Are you suggesting he was lying? 

[Genie]

Just now, sidcow said:

That's not what Boris told us. Are you suggesting he was lying? 

Maybe he was told the lie and he inadvertently repeated it. I’m sure he’s absolutely mortified about the whole thing.

[LondonLax]

7 minutes ago, Risso said:

Nobody asks those questions though. It's not happening.

Well my parents came in to Sweden last week and were asked those questions on arrival (one of them on an Australian passport and one on a British). You know for sure the French aren’t doing it? Perhaps they are taking some short cuts with it to try and reduce the queues?

[sidcow]

13 minutes ago, Genie said:

Maybe he was told the lie and he inadvertently repeated it. I’m sure he’s absolutely mortified about the whole thing.

No, he knew exactly what was going to happen but the serial liar lied. 

[Genie]

3 minutes ago, sidcow said:

No, he knew exactly what was going to happen but the serial liar lied. 

Yeah I know, I was just going with one of his previous exit routes

[sidcow]

Just now, Genie said:

Yeah I know, I was just going with one of his previous exit routes

Sorry, missed the link 

 

[est1874]

45 minutes ago, Risso said:

Nobody asks those questions though. It's not happening.

They most certainly do, and it most certainly is.

[blandy]

1 hour ago, Risso said:

The time it takes to stamp a passport having given it a cursory glance is hardly anything more than just giving it a cursory glance in the first place, if at all.

Did you see the Simon Calder video. He had been there watching it all. The problem, or part of it, he said was that before Brexit the guards would do a cursory glance, particularly if it’s busy and that would take maybe 20 or 40 seconds, even for a car full. Now passports have to be stamped and it’s taking (I think he said a minute and 48 seconds on average). Multiply that extra minute or so for thousands of cars and you got yourself major delays. Stupidly it was the UK that demanded we get our passports stamped as part of the Brexit arrangements, the utter bell ends.

[Genie]

4 minutes ago, blandy said:

Did you see the Simon Calder video. He had been there watching it all. The problem, or part of it, he said was that before Brexit the guards would do a cursory glance, particularly if it’s busy and that would take maybe 20 or 40 seconds, even for a car full. Now passports have to be stamped and it’s taking (I think he said a minute and 48 seconds on average). Multiply that extra minute or so for thousands of cars and you got yourself major delays. Stupidly it was the UK that demanded we get our passports stamped as part of the Brexit arrangements, the utter bell ends.

Also, they should be checking previous stamps to ensure non-EU citizens have not spent more than 90 days in the EU in the previous 180 days.

I suspect they aren’t to help the backlog clear, but the headlines say they are being deliberately difficult to punish Brits…

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, Risso said:

It was the busiest get away for years, with the schools having broken up and lots more trips to Europe being booked from cancelled trips during the pandemic. The queues were caused by a) lots of people all heading to Europe at the same time, b) insufficient existing infrastructure, and especially c) not nearly enough staff. The time it takes to stamp a passport having given it a cursory glance is hardly anything more than just giving it a cursory glance in the first place, if at all.

Unfortunately when you’re dealing with vast numbers those tiny differences between glancing at a passport and actually  checking and stamping a passport matter. They all add up and snowball. 
 

The extra staff would have probably helped but of course we rejected that

Edited July 26, 2022 by Stevo985

[meregreen]

5 hours ago, Risso said:

Nobody asks those questions though. It's not happening.

Yes. They do.Took me 10 minutes to get past passport control and enter Greece last week. It’s a **** nightmare.

Edited July 26, 2022 by meregreen

[Risso]

4 hours ago, blandy said:

Did you see the Simon Calder video. He had been there watching it all. The problem, or part of it, he said was that before Brexit the guards would do a cursory glance, particularly if it’s busy and that would take maybe 20 or 40 seconds, even for a car full. Now passports have to be stamped and it’s taking (I think he said a minute and 48 seconds on average). Multiply that extra minute or so for thousands of cars and you got yourself major delays. Stupidly it was the UK that demanded we get our passports stamped as part of the Brexit arrangements, the utter bell ends.

I did, and I think he's talking out of his arse.

[LondonLax]

5 hours ago, Risso said:

I did, and I think he's talking out of his arse.

Why would you think that?

[fightoffyour]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

Why would you think that?

Voted brexit?

[Genie]

1 hour ago, LondonLax said:

Why would you think that?

[chrisp65]

Yeah, it’s nothing to do with voting to be excluded from the club and all its benefits.

It’s those sneeky lazy bastards in the club treating us different now we’re not members.

Glad we left if this is what they’re gonna be like.