KHV Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 14 hours ago, foreveryoung said: Our judgement should be, how we are set up for the begining of the Championship season. Will there be money to spend, who will be manager, what players can we keep. All be down to Hollis for me. I just don't think the board at the moment has the football experience to understand how difficult its going to be in the fizzy pop league. See David Bernstein, he can even tell you all about League 1.Man City were up and down when he took charge. I think people underestimate what he achieved there. He got them back from the brink from league 1 to the premier league, started a brand new academy with Jim Cassell which was very successful and was a big influence on them getting into the the City of Manchester Stadium which led to the takeover from Sheikh Mansour. Mr Bernstein despite his age knows his stuff 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 On 16/03/2016 at 02:02, srsmithusa said: Also in January, they decided not to spend good money after bad. This is a very perjorative statement - it assumes that the investment in two or three players might not have shown clear support for beleagued manager and possibly jump-started our season. It could have been the best money we've ever spent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 i didn't say it was good or bad. I was making the point that they had done "something" as a reaction to a post that claimed they had done "nothing." By choosing not to spend, they did something. CONTEXT matters. Oh, and I personally thought it was a horrible decision. So, rather than judgmental or demeaning (pejorative) it was set in as generous a framework as I could conceive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 1 minute ago, srsmithusa said: i didn't say it was good or bad. I was making the point that they had done "something" as a reaction to a post that claimed they had done "nothing." By choosing not to spend, they did something. CONTEXT matters. Oh, and I personally thought it was a horrible decision. So, rather than judgmental or demeaning (pejorative) it was set in as generous a framework as I could conceive. Perhaps I misunderstood, if so apologies. Normally "good money after bad" means that you are wasting money. I don't think that two or three new players in January would have been a waste of money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 14 minutes ago, VillaCas said: Perhaps I misunderstood, if so apologies. Normally "good money after bad" means that you are wasting money. I don't think that two or three new players in January would have been a waste of money Me either... I was not commenting on the quality of the decision. I was reacting to the statement that the board had done "nothing", when of course they had. It could clearly be debated whether it was good or bad but it was SOMETHING. I was giving the board the benefit of any doubt by putting the decision from the most positive perspective possible. As I recall I even said that all the things they did could be argued as good or bad. BTW, I think it would have been good to get a player or two (and shed a few more) whether it actually changed the field performance much or not. I think doing nothing was a clear indication that "we give up." I think the players followed suit. No great leader ever said or even implied "the white flag of surrender is our banner." (I'm replaying Churchill's famous speech but removing the word "never" in my head. Horrible leadership in my view.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 5 hours ago, srsmithusa said: i didn't say it was good or bad. I was making the point that they had done "something" as a reaction to a post that claimed they had done "nothing." By choosing not to spend, they did something. CONTEXT matters. Oh, and I personally thought it was a horrible decision. So, rather than judgmental or demeaning (pejorative) it was set in as generous a framework as I could conceive. Except they did try to spend. The keeper we couldn't get a work permit for and the striker went elsewhere despite us offering a higher fee to seal the loan. We were rock bottom and cut adrift so many targets also didn't want to come. This.myth that the board withdrew funding seems to have entered into Villa folklore but are factually incorrect. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New_Jersey_Villa Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I'm going to take the optimistic approach and say that Hollis came in, didn't do anything on the spur of the moment and reviewed everything thoroughly before making changes. You can say what you want about the firings and the new guys brought into the board, but the bottom line is, it's the 11 guys we put on the pitch each game that really matter. Obviously anyone involved in assembling this squad have a lot to answer for and I can only assume from the recent changes, Hollis didn't like what he heard and shook things up. Only time will tell............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam3773 Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 I mugged Hollis off when he first came in and it's too early to tell if he'll be successful, but he's started on the right foot. In two months he's started an investigation into where we are, got shot of two people who were less than great for the club and brought in some great experience in the board members. Small steps, but he hasn't put a food wrong yet and seems to be in full control at the moment. I hope he continues to do good here. I'm sure the biggest thing for us to judge him on in the short term will be his choice of replacement for Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 17, 2016 Share Posted March 17, 2016 1 hour ago, mykeyb said: Except they did try to spend. The keeper we couldn't get a work permit for and the striker went elsewhere despite us offering a higher fee to seal the loan. We were rock bottom and cut adrift so many targets also didn't want to come. This.myth that the board withdrew funding seems to have entered into Villa folklore but are factually incorrect. You may be correct. Which is why I placed the wording in the best light possible. But again, I was replying to a specific post claiming the board had done "nothing" I would take some issue with it being a myth, however. I have in my life decided to buy a car, the one I wanted was not available at a price I was willing to pay. I bought a different car, because I still needed a way to get from point A to point B. I would argue that the board should have understood the message a lack of addition to the squad would send, and in fact did send, as you note. They should have had a plan B, or C, or D in place to give some hope to the team, the manager, and the fans. As it is, the team gave up right after the club failed to strengthen when it was so desperately needed. Why they didnt strengthen is not really the point (IMO) One could argue the wisdom of spending or not, one could argue how hard they tried, but there is not argument that the message sent (not necessarily intended but still sent) was the waiving of the white flag of surrender. Horrible, Horrible decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwj Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 This mornings interview with BBC WM: https://audioboom.com/boos/4319342-hear-from-villa-chairman-steve-hollis-on-the-departures-of-hendrik-almstadt-and-tom-fox?utm_campaign=detailpage&utm_content=retweet&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Thomas Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 (edited) Got to be honest, thought he made sense and sounds like he is addressing some key issues, although his comments at the end about the relationship with fans was less convincing. Ultimately, if the changes he is overseaing start to get results the fans won't be an issue. When all is said and done, football networks, footballing knowledge and better board structures won't add up to much at all without some serious invetment to back that up over the summer. Edited March 18, 2016 by Gary Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decamoto Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 If you take a step back from it all, this could be the first steps of an amicable takeover. New buyer structures the company the way they want while not disrupting a season (since this one is long gone). Then they get rid of people that aren't required/up to scratch so that the setup is in place already going into the summer to reduce off pitch upheaval (as there will be major upheaval both on and off the pitch then anyway). My reason for optimism is that I just can't see Lerner being capable of putting together a board that looks as capable (due to recent decisions) and as football minded which we now have (on paper) by himself. I can but dream anyway! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lp_villa830 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, decamoto said: If you take a step back from it all, this could be the first steps of an amicable takeover. New buyer structures the company the way they want while not disrupting a season (since this one is long gone). Then they get rid of people that aren't required/up to scratch so that the setup is in place already going into the summer to reduce off pitch upheaval (as there will be major upheaval both on and off the pitch then anyway). My reason for optimism is that I just can't see Lerner being capable of putting together a board that looks as capable (due to recent decisions) and as football minded which we now have (on paper) by himself. I can but dream anyway! It's mainly been took out of his hands. Bar Krulak being back I doubt he has much to do with the boards make up since hiring Hollis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villan_007 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I'm not going to lie....that made me wet. However over the past 6 yrs I've heard a lot of Villa tales that have done the same. None of them have delivered. Now is he time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 To be fair to him he's saying a lot of the right things. But I won't buy into anything at this club again until I see results. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 DC, I agree with you here. What he says is sounding good. But it's what he does that will make a difference. The only thing I would add that in moving Almstedt and Fox along he has done two things in the right direction. (basic, simple, quite obvious things I agree, but still....) In addition he has overseen a distinct improvement in the Board. So I would take you one step further. He's saying the right things and he's also making a first few tentative steps in the right direction. I hope it continues, but it's still too early to tell. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 Hollis says we will have the strongest balance sheet of any team in the championship - this season's accounts must not be too bad - last time he made a statement about money, he was right. Bodes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dont_do_it_doug. Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 2 minutes ago, Jareth said: Hollis says we will have the strongest balance sheet of any team in the championship - this season's accounts must not be too bad - last time he made a statement about money, he was right. Bodes well. We've been hearing this shit for years to be fair. I refuse to fall for the spin. I'll credit him for what he does and he's better off keeping the rest to himself. IMO. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted March 18, 2016 Moderator Share Posted March 18, 2016 One thing his comment does, whether it's actually true or not, is it makes it more difficult for them to justify any frugal spending in the summer having admitted that things look good on the balance sheet. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 and it also alerts other clubs who will then raise their prices for when we are looking for players Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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