desensitized43 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: You know that was one of the first things I was talking to my friends about when Cameron said he was going to do a vote on this - how the he'll do you deal with Ireland if we went out. I can't see what the hell the solution is going to be if we were to leave. What would peoples reactions here be if there is a u-turn and we stayed in? I'd prefer to stay in but would have initially accepted a solution that included customs union and access to the single market. As things have gone on and seeing how May took us to literally hours from armageddon and Johnson being (a) Johnson about no deal I don't see why we can't have another vote. I read a good satire the other day that basically said...If remain had won, can you imagine if Cameron had taken that as a mandate for "hard remain" i.e. full federal integration and becoming essentially United States of Europe? There was a mandate to leave, I accept that, but it was a slender one and it wasn't a mandate to leave at all costs. Most sensible people who voted out thought we'd get a deal and it would be done in the least damaging way. The rest were hardcore bigots, racists and deregulators who had very sinister agendas. The slim mandate that was provided has been hijacked by lunatics. Between that and the fact we've had 3 years where the government couldn't even pass legislation to make taking photos of people genitals up their garments illegal tells you we need a change of approach. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 24 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: A compromise for me would be let the existing format for Ireland remain as it is. That's exactly what the December 2017 joint report proposed, before the UK negotiated further concessions. So the compromise is to keep things the same, minus some things that the UK asked for? The EU27 and Commission would absolutely love to settle on your proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chrisp65 Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 It's beginning to look to me that it's a lot more complicated than just in / out, we won the war. It's almost like, really important and detailed and everything has a consequence which needs consideration. Just as well we've replaced an incompetent control freak who's main concern was preservation of the tory party with a narcissistic clown child who's main concern is instant likes. 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 35 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Yep. That was perhaps the dumbest move I can remember. People at the time didn't think calling the election was a dumb move. Here is Freedland, for example. Quote The standard way of describing a move such as the one Theresa May made on Tuesday morning is to call it a “gamble”. A prime minister with a Commons majority and three years left to run on her parliamentary term does not throw that away without risk. In that sense, May has gambled – but as gambles go, it’s about the surest bet any politician could ever place. The polls show May and the Conservatives stretching so far ahead of their opponents that their lead over Labour is about the same size as Labour’s total vote. One survey on Monday showed Labour at 23%, with the Tories on 44%. At that rate, Labour could be on course for a performance worse than their trouncing in 1983. Some have been dusting off the record books to look at 1935, when Labour won just 154 seats. The polling guru John Curtice may well be right that that lead could narrow in the heat of a campaign – especially one that, at 50 days, is relatively long by British standards. There is also a risk that calling a snap vote will irritate an electorate weary of being summoned to the polling booths so often. But even if the Conservative lead shrinks by five or even 10 points May will still win, and win big... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desensitized43 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, chrisp65 said: It's beginning to look to me that it's a lot more complicated than just in / out, we won the war. It's almost like, really important and detailed and everything has a consequence which needs consideration. Just as well we've replaced an incompetent control freak who's main concern was preservation of the tory party with a narcissistic clown child who's main concern is instant likes. He'll probably cost you your job and financial security....but he is very enthusiastic! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted July 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2019 42 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Not even about that though. No deal is shit for them not just UK. All parties need to come up with a compromise where the damage limitation is not pure carnage as no deal would be. It is, but it is far, far worse for the UK than it is for the EU. Only their trade deals with 1 country will be affected whilst for us 27+ any other country we haven't resolved a deal with yet (last I recall back from March it was very few that had done a deal). That is why all this "bravado" Boris/Farage etc. are spouting is in vein as what they are threatening is worse for us than it is for them, it is quite possibly the worse tactic they could employ with either it ending up with us backing down or us shooting ourselves in the foot. Why threaten something that will clearly not be in our interests? It is diabolically stupid and an argument that the EU sees right through, hence their stance. The EU doesn't need to compromise, don't forget that the WA and the backstop is our idea, not theirs. We have presented as a deal we can get through parliament, which we can't. If we went back to the EU with a "softer" deal, they probably would go for it, its just that is not what the Tories are offering nor will they ever do so. They are so worried about the drivel that Farage spouts, and they have been for over 20 years that they will try and appease them for everything to keep their votes and to stay in power, for the good of the party "good of the country". Self serving egotistic morons. And don't even get me started on the whole possible US trade deal. Just watch the @Xann video above to show how terrible that would be for the NHS. The fact that is even in people's thinking is damn right dangerous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: What would peoples reactions here be if there is a u-turn and we stayed in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 18 hours ago, snowychap said: Dissolution takes place 25 working days before the election, no? So they'd have to recall parliament in August and push for an early election for it to be in September, wouldn't they? True. The timings don't quite work. So I'd imagine an extension request in that situation. Anand Menon is going with similar... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 7 minutes ago, ml1dch said: True. The timings don't quite work. So I'd imagine an extension request in that situation. Anand Menon is going with similar... I think he's right that Johnson is going for an early election, and the announcement about 20k more police is a very clear indication of that. It makes sense for him to go on the basis of "us vs the recalcitrant EU", with the aim of winning back Brexit Party votes. What still makes no sense to me is choosing a Cabinet that is so unbalanced that he has made the internal opposition feel it has nothing to lose because he's abandoned any pretence of trying to hold the party together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, peterms said: I think he's right that Johnson is going for an early election, and the announcement about 20k more police is a very clear indication of that. It makes sense for him to go on the basis of "us vs the recalcitrant EU", with the aim of winning back Brexit Party votes. What still makes no sense to me is choosing a Cabinet that is so unbalanced that he has made the internal opposition feel it has nothing to lose because he's abandoned any pretence of trying to hold the party together. I think there is more to Boris than meets the eye. He is alot more intelligent then this silly bafoon that is being potrayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2019 8 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I think there is more to Boris than meets the eye. He is alot more intelligent then this silly bafoon that is being potrayed. The buffoon is an act. He's a clever old school Tory, to the nth degree in that he only cares about himself and his advancement. He's not stupid. The clown side is purely a front to sell himself to people. It's only basis in reality is whilst he seeks advancement with abandon, he's also supremely self destructive and does things that end up haunting him, hence why you rarely hear about successes in his career that aren't anything other than that advancement, because they're vanishingly few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 12 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I think there is more to Boris than meets the eye. He is a lot more intelligent then this silly buffoon that is being portrayed. He's already had an important job - Foreign Secretary - He f***ed that right up. London's got proper burny and stabby since he slashed fire and police services. The Brexit portrait he painted was complete fantasy. Worse he's acting on it. He's a lying prick. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, Demitri_C said: how the he'll do you deal with Ireland if we went out. same way Cromwell dealt with them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, tonyh29 said: same way Cromwell dealt with them Or Priti Patel's suggestion of causing food shortages, perhaps? That went down well. Fine sense of historical awareness there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 hour ago, desensitized43 said: He'll probably cost you your job and financial security....but he is very enthusiastic! Remember that zip wire thing too? Boris is bantz, what a guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: I think there is more to Boris than meets the eye. He is alot more intelligent then this silly bafoon that is being potrayed. I don't understand your logic at all Dem. You've said that "all politicians spunk money" then criticised Sadiq Khan for doing exactly that (whilst saying Boris Johnson was a good mayor, despite "spunking money" to a greater extent) and also say that you don't trust politicians because they lie, and all of them do it, but want to give Boris Johnson a chance, despite him being a bigger liar than them all. You even acknowledge it here - the "bafoon" is all just an act. Without trying to be too mean, I imagine your views are pretty typical of a lot of Conservative voters in the UK. No particular insight into politics or real grasp of what's going on (and, hell, I'm certainly not that in-tune), but, hey, that guy is quite quirky and says some funny things every now and again. Let's give him a chance. What's the worst that can happen? Oh, but that Nick Clegg needs to **** right off. Remember when he lied about tuition fees?! I mean, that's the **** worst right there. Edited July 26, 2019 by bobzy 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, bobzy said: I don't understand your logic at all Dem. You've said that "all politicians spunk money" then criticised Sadiq Khan for doing exactly that (whilst saying Boris Johnson was a good mayor, despite "spunking money" to a greater extent) and also say that you don't trust politicians because they lie, and all of them do it, but want to give Boris Johnson a chance, despite him being a bigger liar than them all. You even acknowledge it here - the "bafoon" is all just an act. Without trying to be too mean, I imagine your views are pretty typical of a lot of Conservative voters in the UK. No particular insight into politics or real grasp of what's going on (and, hell, I'm certainly not that in-tune), but, hey, that guy is quite quirky and says some funny things every now and again. Let's give him a chance. What's the worst that can happen? Oh, but that Nick Clegg needs to **** right off. Remember when he lied about tuition fees?! I mean, that's the **** worst right there. I've said various times I'm not a conservative. I am more middle group but I think the Labour party is a sham party. They are not for the people they are only for themselves. I think I don't communicate my points very well on writing I openly admit that I'm better verbally as my points seem to say something I wasn't trying to say. The mayor thing Khan is useless I've highlighted various reasons why I think he is crap not just spunking the money. But he gets a free pass because of the cuts which is just a poor excuse. Like I said earlier I'd give him a chance because in my opinion he did a good job as mayor compared to the existing fool we have in place. Like k said previously even if Corbyn came in I'd give him a chance. 1 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted July 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: Not even about that though. No deal is shit for them not just UK. It's not great for them. It's probably better for them, though, than giving us a better deal. The EU have no obligation to give us a great deal. The opinion that they're bullying us or being difficult is nonsense. This is our fault. We're the ones being difficult. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bobzy Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: I've said various times I'm not a conservative. I am more middle group but I think the Labour party is a sham party. They are not for the people they are only for themselves. I think I don't communicate my points very well on writing I openly admit that I'm better verbally as my points seem to say something I wasn't trying to say. The mayor thing Khan is useless I've highlighted various reasons why I think he is crap not just spunking the money. But he gets a free pass because of the cuts which is just a poor excuse. Like I said earlier I'd give him a chance because in my opinion he did a good job as mayor compared to the existing fool we have in place. Like k said previously even if Corbyn came in I'd give him a chance. I mean, the Conservatives are quite literally in it for themselves. There is no benefit to the wider population in anything they do; it's always for the few. Always... ...and, seriously, them running the country in this fashion is leading to the cuts. It's leading to the mass-queues and lack of beds at hospitals. It's leading to poorer state schools. It's leading to poorer policing. This is, quite literally (again!) what our current government is doing. They're an absolute joke... but, if you're wealthy it's pretty good. We'll reduce that higher tax rate. We'll cut corporation tax. All good. But, no, it's that bad man Sadiq Khan not doing better with his resources. Seriously, wake the **** up. 12 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 I've got some magic beans if anyone's interested? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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