Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Any politicians that are not liars? I haven't come across one that hasn't yet. This kind of flattening ('all politicians are liars') is particularly useful for the worst people in power, since it means people won't give them adequate scrutiny. I don't agree that 'all politicians are liars', except in as much as all politicians are people, and all people tell lies every now and then. Some are more honest and better at their jobs than others; don't flatten things so that even the most reprehensible politicians are no different from any others. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 26, 2019 On the Big Fat Politicians Tell Whoppers scale of liarishness, Boris scores an 11 (you don’t need me to tell you it only goes to ten) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ml1dch Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 15 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: One thing I do like so far is that he isn't willing to be bullied by EU. Jesus Christ. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 22 minutes ago, snowychap said: Largely because they're shit. You give this guy 'a chance' and he'll **** half your family and **** over the other half. Which politician isn't shit out of curiosity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Jesus Christ. He can't save us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 19 minutes ago, snowychap said: It's not 'moaning' - it's criticism. It's criticism based on who he is, what he plans to do and who he has appointed to help him do that. If you don't like that criticism then respond to it. Just saying 'give him a chance' is worse than tiresome. So what do suggest we do then? You don't know what the plans are none of us do. Let's see what he does. May made a collosal mess out of it let's see What Boris can give us. 17 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: This kind of flattening ('all politicians are liars') is particularly useful for the worst people in power, since it means people won't give them adequate scrutiny. I don't agree that 'all politicians are liars', except in as much as all politicians are people, and all people tell lies every now and then. Some are more honest and better at their jobs than others; don't flatten things so that even the most reprehensible politicians are no different from any others. Perhaps but the people at the top in my experience are all liars including Boris with his campaign to get us out. I have little faith in any of them sadly. But even if Corbyn came in I'd still give him a chance before saying he is shit or God help us etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: He can't save us Nope, this level of dimwittery is beyond even him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 11 minutes ago, ml1dch said: Nope, this level of dimwittery is beyond even him. Classy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 30 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Any politicians that are not liars? I haven't come across one that hasn't yet. That's such an inaccurate and unhelpful stereotype. It's repeated over and over, ironically enough, by the press, who lie far more than politicians. We should distinguish between several different things. There is the planned, deliberate attempt to deceive by flat-out lying, as propounded by Goebbels and practised by Trump and Johnson. There is saying something and failing to do it, and I think May's "tackling burning injustices" probably falls in this category - she failed to define it clearly, focus on it, allocate resources and give it political priority, but I don't think she said it meaning never to do anything about it. I see it as an administrative failure, and an indication of relative political priorities, as well as the consequence of events, but not a deliberate lie. There is the dismal stonewalling of questions by uttering words which aim to give the impression of answering without even attempting to address the question, and May is again a good example - it's deceitful on one level, but it's a quite different thing than flat-out lies. There is the attempt to reframe questions by trying to get an interview on ground the politican wants to talk about, or to challenge the frame set out by the questioner, and this seems entirely fair game to me. These things are not at all the same. Very few politicians are habitual liars in the way that Trump and Johnson are, and it doesn't advance anyone's understanding of what is happening to fall for the lazy journo's bar-room cliche. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Just now, peterms said: That's such an inaccurate and unhelpful stereotype. It's repeated over and over, ironically enough, by the press, who lie far more than politicians. We should distinguish between several different things. There is the planned, deliberate attempt to deceive by flat-out lying, as propounded by Goebbels and practised by Trump and Johnson. There is saying something and failing to do it, and I think May's "tackling burning injustices" probably falls in this category - she failed to define it clearly, focus on it, allocate resources and give it political priority, but I don't think she said it meaning never to do anything about it. I see it as an administrative failure, and an indication of relative political priorities, as well as the consequence of events, but not a deliberate lie. There is the dismal stonewalling of questions by uttering words which aim to give the impression of answering without even attempting to address the question, and May is again a good example - it's deceitful on one level, but it's a quite different thing than flat-out lies. There is the attempt to reframe questions by trying to get an interview on ground the politican wants to talk about, or to challenge the frame set out by the questioner, and this seems entirely fair game to me. These things are not at all the same. Very few politicians are habitual liars in the way that Trump and Johnson are, and it doesn't advance anyone's understanding of what is happening to fall for the lazy journo's bar-room cliche. So what's the difference then when on here people all slate the conservative party Peter? Or the same with Labour? Your generosity the whole party even if there are honest politicians in their respected parties. In my experience they are liars and haven't been able to keep their promises. I do agree with your point about the media though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: So what do suggest we do then? Wake the **** up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 On 24/07/2019 at 10:10, VILLAMARV said: It's ok though, everyone's going to be working through the stages of grief at their own pace - denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. is this the bargaining phase? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterms Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Demitri_C said: So what's the difference then when on here people all slate the conservative party Peter? Or the same with Labour? I see people expressing very clearly that they disagree strongly with the values and policies of various parties, but I don't see people saying (and seeming to believe) that all politicians of a certain party are habitual liars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, snowychap said: Wake the **** up. Chill out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Xann Posted July 26, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2019 5 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Chill out Difficult when the witless vote against their best interests and drag the rest of us down. 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Chill out No. Wake up and pay attention. Edited July 26, 2019 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 31 minutes ago, snowychap said: No. Wake up and pay attention. Chill out man. Geez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, Demitri_C said: Chill out man. Geez Yawn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted July 26, 2019 Moderator Share Posted July 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Demitri_C said: One thing I do like so far is that he isn't willing to be bullied by EU Can you give us any examples of this EU “bullying” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, bickster said: Can you give us any examples of this EU “bullying” Well I would say how they are willing to not negotiate on the old deal is bullying in us in accepting What s best for them and not for the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts