DCJonah Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 59 minutes ago, bobzy said: Which 2 games are you on about? DCJonah seems to refer to Sunderland and Norwich - in which only Bacuna played. Also, didn't Traore assist Gil and then get injured? Almost like he has some sort of injury record and problems, rather than everything being a conspiracy. Odd, that. As Zatman says, Sinclair and Richardson were picked as attacking players against Norwich and Bacuna was played against Sunderland. I'm not sure why him picking up an injury on the pitch shows he should not have started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Haha. If you looked at a stat sheet only, then maybe that would be good thinking. I'd hope managers were looking at slightly more. Oh I don't know, like performances perhaps. Like results perhaps. No, you were right, sticking with the same players while bottom of the league and not winning made perfect sense. Why give this guy a chance? *edit* Sinclair scored 2 premier league goals in August and you're actually defending his inclusion months later based on that. Brilliant Like results perhaps? You mean like the results he was getting when he was in a relegated team last season in the second tier of Spain? Performances? You mean his knack of occasionally showing great skill on the ball, showing great pace and power, but then ultimately having an average, sometimes wayward cross, and not showing much desire to do the 'teamwork' part until this weekend against Bournemouth. You make him out to be a Messi-esq talent that we have been mad not to play more. As Neil has said in the last page, he had chances but got injured, he got brought back slowly but again got injured. The main criticism that most agree with, is that he should have started some games, and yet Sherwood, Garde and Black have all started other players ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Wow. You're justifying not giving him a chance on how he played a year ago in a different league with a different team. Glad to see your so open to players once they join. Keep that open mind. I don't make him out to be like that at all, you just can't comprehend the idea of giving him a chance being different to thinking he's a world beater. For all I know he could be very poor at this level, but there's no way he should have been on the bench every time he's fit, given our results, team performances and the performances of those chose ahead of him. I'm confident he would be more useful to the side than regularly playing Sinclair, Bacuna and Richardson. I've no idea why you're so against giving him an opportunity. Look at the state of us. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 It's OK, we've done just fine without him, the 'teamwork' has just been brilliant, I'm so glad we haven't had Traore disrupting it. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Sherwood liked him. If he hadn't of been injured v Notts County he'd have been starting league games before too long I reckon but he was out for two months and when he came back Sherwood was about to lose his job so was more conservative in selection. Garde never got him and never really showed any indication to start him citing the lack of work rate stuff. Alright but it's not like the 11 we regularly pick put much effort in is it? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 13 minutes ago, Dr_Pangloss said: It's OK, we've done just fine without him, the 'teamwork' has just been brilliant, I'm so glad we haven't had Traore disrupting it. Hey Scott Sinclair scored 2 goals in August. It would be madness to not play him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted April 11, 2016 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 11, 2016 We look incapable of creating chances as a team at the moment, I see nothing in our current situation preventing him having a go - on the right with Ayew central and Grealish left or just behind would have the potential to create a chance or two. Everyone else can defend. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 Hey Scott Sinclair scored 2 goals in August. It would be madness to not play him. Yawn. He scored 5 goals actually, and then another the month after. But irrespective of how many more goals Sinclair has scored compared to Traore, I don't understand why that has become the discussion here. You have harped on and on about Adama all season, saying he should be playing more. The reason given is often 'we can't do worse than the current players', so why are you not calling for the many other options we have that aren't playing much? The reason is that you're over estimating the impact that Adama will have, in my opinion. And that's been my point all along. Whinge on and on all you like, moaning 'why don't you want him to have a chance', but I've never said that. I've never once said I don't want him to play. In fact, if you scroll back many, many pages, you'll see that I did say 'he should be playing more now that we're basically down' (or words to that effect). The issue I have, is this repeated idea that we SHOULD have been playing him way, way back, and that for months on months it has been ongoing wrong decisions to play other players in his place. Continuing this 'it couldn't be any worse' logic. The fact is that managers haven't picked him more, and they will see him on the training pitch every day. They will know the full extent of his abilities. We DON'T by just watching his 20 minute cameos every couple of games. Add to that, that he has had two injuries that kept him out for a while, and the periods following those injuries when he would need to regain fitness and not be rushed, and it's not as much of a disgrace that he hasn't played much, as many people are making out. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 All we know is that what our managers have been doing has not been working Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Posted April 11, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 11, 2016 Agreed, some tend to gloss over the fact that for every bums off the seat run hes goes on he will miscontrol or lose the ball twice over. In saying that id love to see him given a go now...why the hell not! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 11, 2016 Share Posted April 11, 2016 44 minutes ago, Rob182 said: Yawn. He scored 5 goals actually, and then another the month after. But irrespective of how many more goals Sinclair has scored compared to Traore, I don't understand why that has become the discussion here. You have harped on and on about Adama all season, saying he should be playing more. The reason given is often 'we can't do worse than the current players', so why are you not calling for the many other options we have that aren't playing much? The reason is that you're over estimating the impact that Adama will have, in my opinion. And that's been my point all along. Whinge on and on all you like, moaning 'why don't you want him to have a chance', but I've never said that. I've never once said I don't want him to play. In fact, if you scroll back many, many pages, you'll see that I did say 'he should be playing more now that we're basically down' (or words to that effect). The issue I have, is this repeated idea that we SHOULD have been playing him way, way back, and that for months on months it has been ongoing wrong decisions to play other players in his place. Continuing this 'it couldn't be any worse' logic. The fact is that managers haven't picked him more, and they will see him on the training pitch every day. They will know the full extent of his abilities. We DON'T by just watching his 20 minute cameos every couple of games. Add to that, that he has had two injuries that kept him out for a while, and the periods following those injuries when he would need to regain fitness and not be rushed, and it's not as much of a disgrace that he hasn't played much, as many people are making out. What other options that could potentially help us, who haven't had a chance are there? When you answer that question you might then figure out why I haven't been calling for others. I could well be over estimating the impact that Adam will have, but we don't know because he's not been given the chance, that's been my point all along. Whinge and moan? You've just had a go at him for how he played for a different team in a different league, so that's rich. You've said he should be playing now that we're down, which is ridiculous really, he should have been given a chance over players who have proved not good enough when we still had a chance. Absolute madness that you wanted the same old shit playing over and over again, losing games and not scoring goals and you only want a change once we're down. crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I'll answer that question Jonah, easily. U21 players. Namely Andre Green & Keinan Davis. Not to mention Jack Grealish. These are other players who haven't been playing, and therefore must be a better option than what we have been using (if we go by the general feeling in this thread), but you haven't been calling for them to play like you have Adama. I'd be interested to see some stats of those players + Adama from the U21 league. Not to prove anyone right or wrong, but just to see how Adama and Grealish compare to our other prospects. I know that Keinan Davis got two assists last night and Andre Green got a goal. I didn't have a go at Adama for how he played for a different team. You love to twist stuff don't you? I was trying to give our managers the benefit of the doubt for playing players like Ayew and Sinclair ahead of him (mentioning Sinclairs 5 goals in a month and then his 6th the next month), and you responded by saying 'don't look at just the stat sheet, look at performances and results'. My response to that was that the results we can use for Adama are from a relegated second tier team in Spain, and as for performances, we've seen his good (or even great) potential, but at the moment it's nothing more than potential. Yes he might score a goal after a mazy run in one game, but then for the next 4 he might just run into dead ends and put crosses over the box. It's not crazy to give a manager the benefit of the doubt, without hindsight 6 months in the future, for playing a few players with Premier League experience (eg: Sinclair and Gabby) in a team that is massively lacking Premier League experience. No-one thought 'I hope Garde plays Sinclair and we lose'. Obviously. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 I hope he stays and is given a chance in the Championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 28 minutes ago, Rob182 said: I'll answer that question Jonah, easily. U21 players. Namely Andre Green & Keinan Davis. Not to mention Jack Grealish. These are other players who haven't been playing, and therefore must be a better option than what we have been using (if we go by the general feeling in this thread), but you haven't been calling for them to play like you have Adama. I'd be interested to see some stats of those players + Adama from the U21 league. Not to prove anyone right or wrong, but just to see how Adama and Grealish compare to our other prospects. I know that Keinan Davis got two assists last night and Andre Green got a goal. I didn't have a go at Adama for how he played for a different team. You love to twist stuff don't you? I was trying to give our managers the benefit of the doubt for playing players like Ayew and Sinclair ahead of him (mentioning Sinclairs 5 goals in a month and then his 6th the next month), and you responded by saying 'don't look at just the stat sheet, look at performances and results'. My response to that was that the results we can use for Adama are from a relegated second tier team in Spain, and as for performances, we've seen his good (or even great) potential, but at the moment it's nothing more than potential. Yes he might score a goal after a mazy run in one game, but then for the next 4 he might just run into dead ends and put crosses over the box. It's not crazy to give a manager the benefit of the doubt, without hindsight 6 months in the future, for playing a few players with Premier League experience (eg: Sinclair and Gabby) in a team that is massively lacking Premier League experience. No-one thought 'I hope Garde plays Sinclair and we lose'. Obviously. Actually, thanks for reminding me. I've called for Grealish to be back in the team, I've said i'd like to see Green start and that I think it was a mistake to send Gardner away without a chance this season. Adama has first team experience, a lot of potential and can do things that no one else in the squad can do. That's why I've been calling for him to play more. Unlike the players you've mentioned, except grealish, Adama has shown in a few premier league games how dangerous he can be and how he can offer attacking threat to this team. It's not crazy to give the manager the benefit of the doubt but that has to stop at some point, you can't just keep losing and not scoring and keep saying well lets give the manager the benefit of the doubt. That's utter madness. We're being relegated as one of the worst teams in the history of the league. You may have needed hindsight but there were many fans who could have predicted how continuing to play sinclair, bacuna and richardson in attacking positions would turn out. Are you telling me you're surprised we're relegated as bottom of the league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 No I'm not surprised, but I also think we probably would have finished bottom of the league if Adama had started 20+ games. I also think we would have finished bottom if Grealish or Green had started 20+ games. Our squad is that bad. Garde was criticised for a more conservative approach, but there were times earlier in the season when his conservative approach seemed like a good way to stop the rot. I wasn't criticising Garde for the conservative approach then, because that seemed like it could have been the right way to give our team a bit of confidence. We were so poor for so long, that the team didn't look like they even thought we would win. Throwing Adama in and hoping he inspired a win was one option, but it could have easily hampered us further. Instead of picking up a few draws in a defensive way (playing players who might not be the best at attacking, but put in more of a shift for the team), in an attempt to rebuild the confidence, we could have lost more games and thrown away even the slimmest of chances to turn it around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 Still only just turned 20... Ffs people are still going on about Baker, Clark and Westwood being young talents and they are going on 25-27. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pas5898 Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 IF he stays I can see him tearing up the championship. A bit like Tarrabt did a few years ago for QPR. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 No need for any of these mugs who have contributed to our relegation to play again. I want to see the core of the team that we think we'll have in the Championship or at the very least our youth players and players like Adama who haven't had a chance for the rest of the season. Maybe they're worried Adama will tear it up and put himself in the shop window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 He's lack of inclusion could be for any number of reasons - but I'm actually glad he hasn't played that much given that we're going down (maybe it would've been a different story if he had played; I doubt it though!). No-one has really got to have a proper look at the lad and it might mean he stays next season. Personally, I think this would be a rather large boost. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a m ole Posted April 12, 2016 Share Posted April 12, 2016 (edited) If you want an example of why he was used sparingly by managers, watch the U21 highlights against West Ham. 3.50 into the video, 15.00 into the match. It's exactly why managers would think he's very dangerous going forward but I can't afford a mistake like that in the premier league. You have to figure he's the same in training too. Edited April 12, 2016 by a m ole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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