hogso Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 People who read VT will know that typically I disagree with nearly of what Eames says and stands for but this is one of those rare occasions that I agree with him Thats made me go all tingly Drat. Now.... since we're in a spirit of unity and brotherhood, repeat after me. "Boris Johnson is a all round top guy" Boris Johnson - complete and utter twazzock Lest we forget; Boris on Scousers in full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think I owe a personal appology to Liverpool fans for views I had. I suspect my views were based on naivety and maybe to much trust in the authoritys. I knew the authority's were 90% to blame I've never said it was the Liverpool fans to blame, but the fans who forced their way in, but apparently this was an insignificant number. Looks like I've finally found out the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the whole thing was a conspiracy perpetrated by the manufacturer's of plastic seating to win lucrative contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBear Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Kelvin MacKenzie has just apologised. I think he may be a little late on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I suspect a lot of people were mislead by the police cover up and the tabloid media backing them up. When you throw in football rivalries on top of that it can be easy to see why some people blamed the Liverpool fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarewsEyebrowDesigner Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A step in the right direction, but still a long way off justice, though. Who will be held to account? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 People continually blaming Liverpool fans and saying things like they deserved it, despite not having access to the evidence, were always, in my eyes, complete and utter words removed. Reading through a lot of the comments in this thread is simply embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the whole thing was a conspiracy perpetrated by the manufacturer's of plastic seating to win lucrative contracts. Almost entirely off topic but the PEL seating story is a completely different scandal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A step in the right direction, but still a long way off justice, though. Who will be held to account? Nobody Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted September 12, 2012 Moderator Share Posted September 12, 2012 ... Since the disaster there has been a concerted effort by some people to absolve themselves of any sort of blame. You may say that is the police, but I would also include the Gvmt of the time, the FA and also (and the one that certain groups never want to hear) the fans. When all start to realize this things will move forward once and for all. ... I agree with you about the FA, in fact I've said as much earlier in the topic, they even ignored Liverpool's plea not to hold the game at Hillsborough because the same situation nearly happened the year before. The FA knew Hillsborough was a shithole and and accident waiting to happen but they refused point blank to change the venue. I also agree with you about the attitude to football fans (also said as much previously in the topic) but that didn't start with the Thatcher Govt, I'm not sure when it did start, sometime in the early 70's I'd imagine (or even late 60') I'm too young to have experienced the birth of institutional football fan hatred but definitely lived through it. But hopefully you've changed your mind about blaming the fans, its perfectly clear that they have now been declared completely blameless TWICE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrees Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I guess that when scousers stop turning up in large, ticketless numbers for major football matches, then they will be really blameless. The largest burden of blame should fall on the authorities, F.A., police, safety officials who were responsible for the venue, and the disaster mismanagement at the time. The only people 100% blameless were the victims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qwpzxjor1 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Agreed, but that argument just brings us full circle to the question, what else can be done now that wasn't already implemented 20 years ago? Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen and the Taylor report ensured it wouldn't happen again, so this "justice for the 96" campaign still strikes me as being about money or finding a scapegoat. That's exactly my thoughts on it. The Justice for the 96 Campaign is nothing short of a witchhunt for me. Lets say they get their wish - and evidence is revealed to say that one person in charge, head of police or whatever, made a **** up which directly caused it. What then? Would justice be done? Or would we just get a lynchmob making a person who has probably been haunted by his decision for decades' life even further hell. The Justice for the 96 Campaign is not only pointless, it's disgusting, IMO. In light of today's parliamentary debate, I hope you are ashamed of this post (but knowing the state of this thread you wont be). Correct. I won't be. My opinions haven't changed over the latest report. I still don't know what's been gained. Everyone knew it was a **** up, everyone knew more could have been saved if it wasn't for shit policing and misjudgements, etc.. But the Taylor Report already addressed these issues. I still don't see what the JFT96 Campaign was about. They can now say 'See? - we were right! We were right!'. Worth the time effort and expense? I'm not sure the world will wake up tomorrow any differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I'm not sure the world will wake up tomorrow any differently. Maybe not but the families of the dead most definitely will and that was certainly worth the effort. The last report showed that the police were at fault. This report exposes the police cover up and smear campaign which now clears the reputations of the fans at the game that day. It was very much worth the effort and hopefully prosecutions will now follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I think the whole thing was a conspiracy perpetrated by the manufacturer's of plastic seating to win lucrative contracts. Almost entirely off topic but the PEL seating story is a completely different scandal Pel as in the company from brum who went tits up over the Wembley seating contract ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dAVe80 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Good to see the title of the thread has been changed at last. If some people still hold the views that I've seen, post today's report, then I truly despair. I hope the exoneration of the fans, is of comfort to the families of the 96 who lost their lives, due to the incompetence, and down right fabrication and lies, of the authorities that should have been there to protect them, and let them watch a game of football in safety. Arrests now need to be made, and justice needs to be done. As for that odious toad, Kelvin MacKenzie, and his cronies at The Sun, they should never work in media again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 But hopefully you've changed your mind about blaming the fans, its perfectly clear that they have now been declared completely blameless TWICE thing is Gareth as I said previously re fans there are a couple of points. Fans in general were treated and very often acted like scum at that time especially when compared to now. More so the former than the latter though. Also as I said I still believe that every semi before H'boro and afterwards has a lot of very drunk fans, look at the recent experiences when we made semi finals there was a vast amount of drink consumed. Cameron even alluded to it in his speech (the H'boro thing not you and me having a pint in Harrow). I still maintain, and in that Mirror report earlier it was there were fans who shall we say would have failed a breathalyser. I appreciate having a drink is not problem, but there were lots of comments about fans getting overly agitated when it all started to go wrong. Also as I said the atmosphere in the local pubs was not a pleasant few chaps having a pint there was a lot of shall we say rowdiness, how do I know? because people I trust who were working in a couple of pubs very close to the ground have said. They had no reason to make that up unlike a certain Tory MP etc Lets hope that some lines can be drawn under certain events and also that a few people in various positions of power have to explain their actions a bit more fully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KT3AVFC Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Correct. I won't be. My opinions haven't changed over the latest report. I still don't know what's been gained. Everyone knew it was a **** up, everyone knew more could have been saved if it wasn't for shit policing and misjudgements, etc.. But the Taylor Report already addressed these issues. I still don't see what the JFT96 Campaign was about. They can now say 'See? - we were right! We were right!'. Worth the time effort and expense? I'm not sure the world will wake up tomorrow any differently. Really strange those people who would like to know the truth about what really happened to their loved ones. I'm sure your view would be very different if you were one of the people who had been affected. Taylor didn't address issues such as whether there was more that could have been done to save lives, the systematic attempt by the police to cover up their failings etc. That's why people are still campaigning after all this time. I can't stand much of the mythology that surrounds Liverpool Football Club (as they seemingly have to be referred to) but on this one JTF96 have been spot on and good luck to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Will the hate and resentment shown by many in Liverpool towards the police and The Sun newspaper now be just even more pronounced ? (possibly rightly so). I understand it brings a degree of closure and justice for the bereaved friends and family but does it not also open up a massive rift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunRickyRun Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Correct. I won't be. My opinions haven't changed over the latest report. I still don't know what's been gained. Everyone knew it was a **** up, everyone knew more could have been saved if it wasn't for shit policing and misjudgements, etc.. But the Taylor Report already addressed these issues. I still don't see what the JFT96 Campaign was about. They can now say 'See? - we were right! We were right!'. Worth the time effort and expense? I'm not sure the world will wake up tomorrow any differently. Astonishing. Are you able to empathise with the families in any way? In what way was their campaign disgusting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Correct. I won't be. My opinions haven't changed over the latest report. I still don't know what's been gained. Everyone knew it was a **** up, everyone knew more could have been saved if it wasn't for shit policing and misjudgements, etc.. But the Taylor Report already addressed these issues. I still don't see what the JFT96 Campaign was about. They can now say 'See? - we were right! We were right!'. Worth the time effort and expense? I'm not sure the world will wake up tomorrow any differently. Astonishing. Are you able to empathise with the families in any way? In what way was their campaign disgusting? Presumably in the same way that the family of a murder victim should just get on with things and stop making such a big deal out of the whole thing. i.e it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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