KAZZAM Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Edited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 for me everybody is to blame for this and i think closure needs to be brought on this situation for the families. Nobody has come out of this in good light Liverpool fans, police and the authorities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 So, opening the big gate was clearly a fatal error, however if they hadn't done that wouldn't people have died outside the ground ? Opening the gate changed the location of the fatal crushing ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBear Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Bickster, you obviously don't need to read this but certain people on this forum need to know the facts because basically what I'm reading is disgusting. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/hillsborough-documents-released-brian-reade-1318730 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Whoever decided to have that bloody fence around the front of the stands is the worst culprit. In Fever Pitch Nick Hornby recalls how a huge crush at Highbury forced many fans onto the pitch. They were able to escape safely due to the absence of a fence which ironically made Highbury not qualify as an FA Cup semi final venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markeefc Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Don't get me wrong, I am not fond of Liverpool Fans, I find them arrogant and so insular and I wish they fought for Justice for the Juve fans as much as they do for their own but I guess we can all be parochial about things. However, the argument that its been 20 years and they should let it drop goes against human nature. If your child was killed it took 20 years to find the person responsible, you would want justice just as much as those family members of the Liverpool fans do as without some sense of Justice it is very very hard to find a way to close things emotionally. Its a natural reaction and if, as it seems to be, that there was an institutional cover up, then it needs to be acknowledged and someone has to stand up and say 'Sorry' even if they are not personally responsible. That is the role of Government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 I would expect the families/friends to feel that way but I'm not sure why other Liverpool fans (and even Scousers that aren't interested in football) need to be so militant about people they haven't even met. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drat01 Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 Bickster, you obviously don't need to read this but certain people on this forum need to know the facts because basically what I'm reading is disgusting. http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/hillsborough-documents-released-brian-reade-1318730 That report is written using the standards that are in place today as some sort measurement for what went on that day though. As said those of us who went to matches at that time were all holding a lottery card for the disaster waiting to happen. It could have happened to any of us at the time worryingly. There was a lot of violence in the grounds look at what happened at sha when the Leeds kid was killed, the many who died at Bradford due to awful stadium and setups. Look at the violence and what it caused at heysell involving Liverpool fans ironically. So many at the time it first got reported did think that it was football violence again. There does seem to be though this massive teflon approach from some to apportion blame only on others when the reality is that is was a whole load of circumstances, individuals and groups that were the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrinityRoadSteps Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 As with most incidents that end up with large numbers of casualties there isn't one thing that can be blamed. More a tragic coming together of a lot of a lot of little things at the same time. On their own it wouldn't have caused such devastation. But put them all together and the worst happens. So, yes, fans acting like they did on the day were a little piece in a terrible jigsaw. On it's own it wouldn't have been enough. But tied in with all the other failures that day and what happened, happened. There is no one cause for Hillsborough. But lots of little things that all came together at the wrong time. What is unforgivable though was the way the authorities and some sections of the media acted in the aftermath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbaughan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. I don't think so. People already accepted that Liverpool fan's were not solely to blame for the accident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 A forensic independent review has concluded that the main cause of the Hillsborough disaster that caused the deaths of 96 men, women and children was a "failure in police control" but has also revealed "multiple failures" within other organisations that compromised crowd safety. More than 23 years after the disaster claimed 96 lives and following a two year review of around 450,000 unrestricted documents relating to the disaster, the Hillsborough Independent Panel has underlined the "clear operational failure" that led to the disaster and the attempts by South Yorkshire Police and the ambulance service to cover up their shortcomings. The fact that the ambulance service also altered statements from staff is revealed for the first time. The evidence shows "conclusively" that Liverpool fans "neither caused nor contributed to the deaths" and shows the extent to which attempts, endorsed by the SYP chief constable Peter Wright, were made to smear them. Documents released to the panel show how high ranking police sources, the South Yorkshire Police Federation and the Tory MP Irvine Patnick were responsible for feeding the stories to White's News Agency in Yorkshire. They led to the infamous Sun headline "The Truth" that led to a longstanding boycott of the paper in Liverpool. "The Police Federation, supported informally by the SYP chief constable, sought to develop and publicise a version of events derived in police officers' allegations of drunkenness, ticketless fans and violence. This extended beyond the media to Parliament," said the Panel. "From the mass of documents, television and CCTV coverage disclosed to the Panel there is no evidence to support these allegations other than a few isolated examples of aggressive or verbally abusive behaviour clearly reflecting frustration and desperation. The vast majority of fans on the pitch assisted in rescuing and evacuating the dead and injured." Over 23 years after 96 men, women and children died at the Leppings Lane end of the ground on 15 April 1989, the families of those who died gave the Panel a standing ovation in Liverpool Cathedral as it delivered its findings. "For nearly a quarter of a century the families of the 96 and the survivors of Hillsborough have nursed an open wound waiting for answers to unresolved questions. It has been a frustrating and painful experience adding to their grief. In spite of all the investigations they have sensed that their search for truth and justice has been thwarted and that no one has been held accountable," said the Bishop of Liverpool, James Jones, who chaired the Panel. "The documents disclosed to and analysed by the Panel show that the tragedy should never have happened. There were clear operational failures in response to the disaster and in its aftermath there were strenuous attempts to deflect the blame onto the fans. The Panel's detailed report shows how vulnerable victims, survivors and their families are when transparency and accountability are compromised." Utterly damning report Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBear Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 "Fans left to die, children tested for alcohol and dead checked for criminal records. And people question why families fought for this day? " Yes, the Justice campaign was a ploy to line the grieving parents pockets. Whoever implied that in this thread, can't be arsed going back to check, needs to have a serious word with themselves. I just hope today goes some way to educating the younger, naive people into what happened really happened that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_junior Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. I don't think so. People already accepted that Liverpool fan's were not solely to blame for the accident. Your post is even more evidence of people not geting it. "Liverpool fans were not solely to blame for the accident"? Liverpool fans were not in any way to blame for the accident. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand that, other than not *wanting* to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbaughan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 "Fans left to die, children tested for alcohol and dead checked for criminal records. And people question why families fought for this day? " Yes, the Justice campaign was a ploy to line the grieving parents pockets. Whoever implied that in this thread, can't be arsed going back to check, needs to have a serious word with themselves. I just hope today goes some way to educating the younger, naive people into what happened really happened that day. I don't think it will. The things you just quoted I already knew. If a person really wants to know what happened, a little bit of research will answer any questions. This justice campaign will not change the mind of someone who has already mind up their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 What is the motive here, compensation ? The truth ? Or maybe both Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbaughan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. I don't think so. People already accepted that Liverpool fan's were not solely to blame for the accident. Your post is even more evidence of people not geting it. "Liverpool fans were not solely to blame for the accident"? Liverpool fans were not in any way to blame for the accident. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand that, other than not *wanting* to do so. I'm not getting into a debate here as anyone with differing opinion is lambasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_junior Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 for me everybody is to blame for this and i think closure needs to be brought on this situation for the families. Nobody has come out of this in good light Liverpool fans, police and the authorities. Another shining display of ignorance. The fans have just been as spectacularly and clearly exonerated of any blame is it is possible to be, but still some people just don't want to believe it. Liverpool fans come out of this exceptionally well, because it was they (and many others) who continued to keep this issue in the public mind for almost a quarter of a century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle_junior Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. I don't think so. People already accepted that Liverpool fan's were not solely to blame for the accident. Your post is even more evidence of people not geting it. "Liverpool fans were not solely to blame for the accident"? Liverpool fans were not in any way to blame for the accident. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand that, other than not *wanting* to do so. I'm not getting into a debate here as anyone with differing opinion is lambasted. That's because your opinion is morally, factually and offensively wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbaughan Posted September 12, 2012 Share Posted September 12, 2012 This thread is embarrassing for so many, even more so today. I don't think so. People already accepted that Liverpool fan's were not solely to blame for the accident. Your post is even more evidence of people not geting it. "Liverpool fans were not solely to blame for the accident"? Liverpool fans were not in any way to blame for the accident. I don't see how anyone can fail to understand that, other than not *wanting* to do so. I'm not getting into a debate here as anyone with differing opinion is lambasted. That's because your opinion is morally, factually and offensively wrong. I'm still not biting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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