The Hillsborough inquest

[BOF]

Well they asked for the reveal. Let's see the reaction to it. Should be interesting if nothing else.

Artikul

Thatcher was told drunk fans caused Hillsborough, papers say

Floral tributes laid following the Hillsborough disaster Bereaved families have been calling for the release of secret government and police papers about the disaster

Former PM Margaret Thatcher was told a senior Merseyside police officer blamed "drunken Liverpool fans" for causing the Hillsborough disaster, confidential government documents have revealed.

The BBC has seen leaked briefings about Britain's worst sports tragedy.

Ninety-six football fans died after a crush on overcrowded terraces at an FA Cup Semi Final in April 1989.

The official inquiry said the disaster was caused by the failure in crowd control by South Yorkshire Police.

Letters to and from 10 Downing Street and cabinet minutes that show what Mrs, now Lady, Thatcher was discussing and being told behind the scenes have been made public for the first time by BBC Radio 4's The World at One.

For years, the families of those who died have been calling for the release of secret government and police papers relating to the disaster.

The government has agreed that this will happen.

The Hillsborough Independent Panel, set up in 2009, is reviewing hundreds of documents but they are not expected to be made available to the families of those who died or to the wider public until later this year.

It is thought there will be thousands of pages to sift through.

The most controversial issue in the papers that the BBC has seen relates to what Mrs Thatcher was being told about the views of some senior members of the Merseyside Police Force.

'Deeply ashamed'

They are contained in a letter sent to the prime minister from a member of her policy unit in Downing Street. Four days after the disaster, the adviser attended a long planned meeting with the Chief Constable of Merseyside Police, the late Sir Kenneth Oxford, and some of his senior colleagues.

Continue reading the main story

It is important to bear in mind that this was written just days after the Hillsborough disaster and the views of the chief constable and those of his senior officers may well have changed over the subsequent weeks.

According to the letter, the Merseyside chief constable said: "A key factor in causing the disaster was the fact that large numbers of Liverpool fans had turned up without tickets.

"This was getting lost sight of in attempts to blame the police, the football authorities, etc."

The prime minister was informed that a senior member of the Merseyside Police directly blamed supporters: "One officer, born and bred in Liverpool, said that he was deeply ashamed to say that it was drunken Liverpool fans who had caused this disaster, just as they had caused the deaths at Heysel."

This officer is not named.

Hundreds were injured and 39 supporters died when rioting Liverpool fans charged Juventus fans before the 1985 European Cup Final at the Heysel stadium on 29 May 1985. It led to a blanket ban of English clubs from European competition for five years.

Margaret Aspinall, whose teenage son James died in the Hillsborough disaster, described the comments made by the unnamed senior officer as "appalling" and "offensive".

"We knew things were going on behind closed doors, we've always known that. It doesn't surprise me in a sense... but I'm surprised by the content of it," the chairwoman of the Hillsborough Families Support Group said of the briefings.

More of the views of the chief constable are also referred to in the files: "He deplored the press's morbid concentration on pictures of bodies. He was also uneasy about the way in which Anfield was being turned into a shrine."

Direct to Downing Street

There is nothing in the documents the BBC has seen about any briefings from South Yorkshire Police. It is possible more will become known about that when many other confidential papers are officially released in a few months time.

Margaret Thatcher walks with Bernard Ingham, Douglas Hurd, Bert Millichip and others as they see the scene of the Hillsborough Disaster, at Hillsborough Stadium, Sheffield. April 16 1989 The government has promised to release files relating to Margaret Thatcher and Hillsborough

Instead, we have learnt about the controversial views of some of Liverpool's own senior police officers and how, just days after the disaster, they were being passed on directly to 10 Downing Street and to Mrs Thatcher.

Other Downing Street papers seen by the BBC provide an insight into what the prime minister was saying and discussing with her cabinet colleagues in the days after Hillsborough.

The main issue of discussion contained in these documents was the effect the disaster was going to have on controversial legislation aimed at controlling the behaviour of football fans.

The Football Spectators' Bill was already going through Parliament. The government was determined to continue with it, in order to introduce a national membership scheme for the sport. This would have brought in what were dubbed as identity cards for football fans.

According to the conclusions of the first cabinet meeting to take place after the disaster, Mrs Thatcher told her ministers that the situation on crowd safety and hooliganism at football matches "cried out for action".

The government wanted the legislation to be passed in time for the following year's World Cup finals in Italy - to reduce the prospect of crowd trouble. The meeting also discussed using it to bring in any interim recommendations from the Hillsborough Inquiry.

'Gravest matter'

In another meeting with senior cabinet colleagues which took place on the same day, the prime minister said: "To abstain from taking action… would be the gravest possible matter, now that the need for this action had been so conclusively demonstrated."

Five days later, Home Secretary Douglas Hurd met the man conducting the official inquiry into Hillsborough, Lord Justice Taylor.

A letter written by a civil servant at the Home Office says Mr Hurd told the judge about the government's proposed new timetable to get the football spectators' legislation passed by Parliament.

He then asked Lord Justice Taylor what he would say if the government went ahead with this and then asked "…whether he was really quite sure that it was out of the question to form and express a view on the subject of membership cards in the three and a half months… between the start of the inquiry… and the end of August?"

According to the letter, Lord Justice Taylor told him that "this was possible, but he was not confident that it could be achieved".

He said his priority was establishing the facts of what had happened at Hillsborough and could not promise to come up with any recommendations on membership cards in time to fit in with the government's political schedule.

The prime minister was told what had happened in a briefing note from her principal private secretary, who informed her: "Lord Justice Taylor was distinctly unhelpful."

In the end, the government did press ahead with its plans and the law was passed. However, the following year, in his report, Lord Justice Taylor said he had "grave doubts" about the feasibility of football membership cards and "serious misgivings" about the scheme's likely impact on safety. As a result of his concerns, the government dropped the scheme and it was never implemented.

[Woodytom]

no surprise there

[Voinjama]

Well this is more chance for the Liverpool haters on the site to have another go.

[Zatman]

on my way over to RAWK now

[BOF]

Well this is more chance for the Liverpool haters on the site to have another go.

If you keep adding fuel to a fire, it will keep burning I learned that on my fire safety course.

[LondonLax]

You mean these football fans had been drinking before they went to a football game?

Well I never!

[The_Rev]

I don't see why this is a surprise. Liverpool fans did cause the incident. And before somebody jumps on that in the way they tend to when it comes to talk about Hillsborough, which tends to be very dogmatic these days, it was people jumping over the wall and getting into the ground without tickets which caused all of the deaths. Yes, Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen and Liverpool were the poor bastards who drew the short straw and yes, it is an absolute shame that so many innocent people died but I still never understood what the "Justice for the 96" campaign actually wanted.

The biggest fallout from the incident was the Taylor Report which as far as I can tell solved every problem which contributed to Hillsborough. England now has the safest and most modern stadiums in the world and the increased policing and security which came in following Hillsborough has all but eliminated Hooliganism from the game. You can now take your kids to the game if you want, something which was a much more dangerous proposition when I was growing up in the 80s. So if the government made sure that Hillsborough could never happen again 15 years ago then other than trying to get money or the name and address of a scapegoat who could then get lynched by Liverpool fans whether it was their fault or not I cant see what the point in this campaign was in the first place. Maybe it is time to close it, mourn the dead and move on with our lives.

[Zatman]

And before somebody jumps on that in the way they tend to when it comes to talk about Hillsborough, which tends to be very dogmatic these days, it was people jumping over the wall and getting into the ground without tickets which caused all of the deaths

worse thing is similar thing nearly happened in Athens in 2007 champions league final

[TOTTI-THE-GOD]

And before somebody jumps on that in the way they tend to when it comes to talk about Hillsborough, which tends to be very dogmatic these days, it was people jumping over the wall and getting into the ground without tickets which caused all of the deaths

worse thing is similar thing nearly happened in Athens in 2007 champions league final

I was about to say the same thing , fans with tickets werent allowed in as i recall cause the Liverpool end was full , meaning there were loads in the ground without tickets , farce and a half .

[LondonLax]

And before somebody jumps on that in the way they tend to when it comes to talk about Hillsborough, which tends to be very dogmatic these days, it was people jumping over the wall and getting into the ground without tickets which caused all of the deaths

worse thing is similar thing nearly happened in Athens in 2007 champions league final

It happens every time a large group of people get together where there is insufficent crowd control.

It happened in 2010 in Duisburg during Love Parade, it happened in 2000 at Roskilde festival, it happened in 2001 at a concert I was at.

It is just bad luck that it was Liverpool fans who copped it that day, mostly oweing to the fact that they were the most popular team around at the time.

Don't let your hatred of Liverpool cloud your judgement.

[legov]

Football is not a matter of life and death. I assure you, it's much less than that, and one would do well to keep that in mind every time something as trivial as a failure to gain tickets happens.

[Oaks]

I really have no idea what these Liverpool fans will get out of this other than another scapegoat. There were many reasons for this horrific event. A perfect storm of fuckups from there being fans caged in like animals to a gate being opened because to many fans had turned up late and trying to get in without tickets. Now Liverpool fans almost take great plesure in blameing the government and the police, but react in a different way to suggestions that them fans were any way to blame.

How does that saying go...Liverpool FC: Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing.

[Demitri_C]

iEngland now has the safest and most modern stadiums in the world and the increased policing and security which came in following Hillsborough has all but eliminated Hooliganism from the game. You can now take your kids to the game if you want, something which was a much more dangerous proposition when I was growing up in the 80s. So if the government made sure that Hillsborough could never happen again 15 years ago then other than trying to get money or the name and address of a scapegoat who could then get lynched by Liverpool fans whether it was their fault or not I cant see what the point in this campaign was in the first place. Maybe it is time to close it, mourn the dead and move on with our lives.

spot on rve and i agree this is the big factor for me. something was done to prevent it happening again and hasnt

i accept police cocked up but what i dont accept is liverpool fans not blaming their own for their own behaviour on that tragic day

[Voinjama]

I am going to be honest and say I wasnt aware of the Athens 2007 thing. It nearly happened again? Goodness me. :shock:

[villa_shere]

They ask for an appology from The Sun and the Government but how about the fans who turned up that day without a ticket and forced their way into the stadium.

I wonder how many of these supporters have admitted their fault in the disaster.

[Genie]

A few years back Villa played Liverpool at VP on the opening day of the season, I'm sure there were fans reports of the Liverpool fans without tickets forcing their way into the ground.

[lapal_fan]

When the very first season of home fans being in the lower north, a few climbed over the 10ft metal gates which let supporters out of the ground after the game..

Dickheads shit themselves when they realised it was now a home supporters stand!

[MMFy]

I don't see why this is a surprise. Liverpool fans did cause the incident. And before somebody jumps on that in the way they tend to when it comes to talk about Hillsborough, which tends to be very dogmatic these days, it was people jumping over the wall and getting into the ground without tickets which caused all of the deaths. Yes, Hillsborough was an accident waiting to happen and Liverpool were the poor bastards who drew the short straw and yes, it is an absolute shame that so many innocent people died but I still never understood what the "Justice for the 96" campaign actually wanted.

The biggest fallout from the incident was the Taylor Report which as far as I can tell solved every problem which contributed to Hillsborough. England now has the safest and most modern stadiums in the world and the increased policing and security which came in following Hillsborough has all but eliminated Hooliganism from the game. You can now take your kids to the game if you want, something which was a much more dangerous proposition when I was growing up in the 80s. So if the government made sure that Hillsborough could never happen again 15 years ago then other than trying to get money or the name and address of a scapegoat who could then get lynched by Liverpool fans whether it was their fault or not I cant see what the point in this campaign was in the first place. Maybe it is time to close it, mourn the dead and move on with our lives.

Good post.

It's also worth noting that although Liverpool fans said Hillsborough was a 'death trap' and 'accident waiting to happen', there was no real problems until they turned up. Heysel, Hillsborough and Athens are not isolated incidents though.

I was a steward in the Lower Holte when I was at college, going back to 1999. I worked there for a few seasons. Whenever we played Liverpool there was a special briefing about 'the Scousers trying to jump the turnstiles'. They did it at every ground, and it was common knowledge.

Sympathy to the families of the dead though. There just seems to be a heavy contingent of words removed among Liverpool's fan base. But we all knew that already...

[blandy]

FFS. Liverpool fans did not cause the tragedy. Whatever a copper told the witch is neither here nor there, other than it's yet another in a long line of ill informed opinions. There was an enquiry by Lord justice Taylor. That inquiry did NOT lay the blame on the football fans.

It's a shame that so many people are so ignorant of the events that occurred and the causes that were determined, preferring instead to lazily leap to conclusions or to go with prejudices.

In other circumstances it could have been us. Maybe people who were very young or not born back then, or not into football back then might think "Oh it was bound to be the scourers fault" but it wasn't. It really could have been us. Policing of fans was aggressive, distrustful and disgraceful generally. Grounds were often dangerous, PA announcements no existent, stewarding often utterly inadequate. The attitude of clubs to fans and their comfort and safety was dire.

Yes people drank, as they do now, yes some people are impatient or aggressive or try to get in for free. That's not what caused the disaster though.

Some Police inspector telling Thatcher something, whilst himself being at best unaware of all the details, and at worst covering for his colleagues, or sharing general police attitudes to fans "animals" basically shows nothing other than (yet again) bad judgement and ignorance.

[LondonLax]

The voice of reason.