The Tim Sherwood Thread

[jackbauer24]

Just to clarify - Lerner is NOT the problem here. He just sets the constraints.

Yes, those constraints might limit us to the bottom half of the league but no owner would ever place enough limits to confine the team to the bottom 3 places regardless of which manager is in charge.

Sherwood needs to go not because we are expecting too much of his squad - his current squad, imo, is easily better than anything the previous incumbent had to work with - he needs to go because he is getting waaaaay less out of his squad than can reasonably be demanded.

 

This isn't for the Sherwood thread but I disagree with you very much on Lerner. I'll concede that he may well not be aware he is tightening the funds to such a degree that relegation is almost inevitable regardless of the manager but he is still doing it! He has reduced investment to a point he thinks we can just about survive on and that's the height of his ambition. Unfortunately a lot of people are waking up to the fact the investment he is putting in is BELOW the required amount to survive. There is no other explantion for failing to even attempt to replace such key departures, there's no explanation for reducing the wages again. Of course he wants to survive but he has finally pushed the limits too far and the only thing that will save us is cash, not a change in manager.

I can't say I'm overly fussed one way or the other on Sherwood, I see both potential and problems but above all else I think it's kind of irrelevant whilst Lerner operates in the way he is. I also don't understand anyone who is convinced we have a better squad this year, where the hell is the evidence for this? Not through performance here certainly, not through being greats at other clubs. At best our squad is full of a lot of POTENTIAL for the first time in years, but the problem with that is often in football (not just Villa) potential is never realised and we have taken a hell of a gamble on so much potential. Having a foreign name, being signed from a foreign team and being young doesn't mean they're good! Currently I'd prefer to still see Cleverley and Delph in our midfield! In fact, most of our better players this season have been players who were here before Sherwood.

I'd bet last years XI would beat our current XI, if only because of Benteke!

Edited October 21, 2015 by jackbauer24

[sexbelowsound]

Bottom line: The very fact that a large bloc of long-time posters on Villa Talk don't like Sherwood -- a number that has grown a lot -- is enough to make me want to see someone new soon. 

We need someone the fans will unite behind.

We all need to be pulling in the same direction.

There's just no other way to save this club.

[VillaCas]

The wrong appointment from day one - inexperienced and a reknowned loudmouth (not an insult just a fact). He delivered 1.2 points a game to stumble over the line one place above the drop. Nothing amazing, Just enough. I'd argue that Benteke's return to fitness and form had more to do with that than Sherwood.

The writing was on the wall from the last two games of the season - a drubbing from Southampton and an insipid display against Burnley

The overwhelming consensus was that we had a squad worthy over lower midtable and again the overwhelming consensus was that we had done ok in the transfer market and again should have been looking at 10th-14th

4 points from the last 33 possible says it all for me. Our worst ever start to a season in living memory.

The things that he had in his favour from day one - a clear commitment to attacking football and a reputation for getting the best out of young players have been ditched as soon as the going gets tough

The recent comments, from him and his media mates are embarassing the club

There is a lot wrong with AV at the moment and a change of manager won't put everything right but without an immediate change this will be the season that we quietly slip out of the PL

                     You maybe right with all of that.

                      but tell me this, the popular vote was that we did a good bit of business during the summer as you say,

                       ...... based on exactly what?

It can't be based on anything........its all opinions

There is no way to know if the players bought in the summer are good players being held back by a poor manager or vice versa. 

My point was that the overwhelming majority of the fan base thought that we had done good business.  Certainly, 99% of people would feel that we have enough in the squad to above the likes of Bournemouth. Norwich and Watford for example

You may be buying into the spin (probably driven by Sherwood) that now we are struggling, the players are to blame

[DCJonah]

There's no spin required to see that a lot of our summer signings have looked way off premier league level and have contributed little. Anyone with eyes can see that. It doesn't mean they wouldn't be better with another manager but I'm starting to feel like I did after Lambert's second summer window, that initial excitement is fading fast.

[VillaCas]

There's no spin required to see that a lot of our summer signings have looked way off premier league level and have contributed little. Anyone with eyes can see that. It doesn't mean they wouldn't be better with another manager but I'm starting to feel like I did after Lambert's second summer window, that initial excitement is fading fast.

How would those same players be under a different manager, in a settled side with a clear and consistent strategy?

But even if it is the players (and personally I think we have better players than half a dozen sides) Sherwood had a hand in recruiting them

and even if, as Sherwood is now intimating, much of the revruitment was out of his hands then that shows his weakness in that he was unable to get his voice heard loud enough in the debate (imagine Big Sam or Pulis or Moyes or Mourinho or Ferguson in the same situation)

If we don't sack Sherwood in the next week we are going down guaranteed (and maybe if we do)

[Stevo985]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

[TrentVilla]

Bradley or Southgate. If ever there were two names that summed up where we are these days it's them pair.

If they or Sherwood are the best we can do we better start looking forward to away days in the Championship.

[Lerner's Driver]

Bradley or Southgate. If ever there were two names that summed up where we are these days it's them pair.

If they or Sherwood are the best we can do we better start looking forward to away days in the Championship.

Agreed, neither are suitable, but if it is a choice I would instantly rule out Southgate. There isn't a more boring man alive.

[Richard]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

im not sure motivation was ever a strong point of his,  if it was I wouldnt have first hand witnessed an abject failure to turn up on the cup final.  He is a chancer nothing more nothing less

[HeyAnty]

Bradley or Southgate. If ever there were two names that summed up where we are these days it's them pair.

If they or Sherwood are the best we can do we better start looking forward to away days in the Championship.

Well that's where we are.  I made the point earlier, a proven quality manager inst going to risk his rep taking over us.  Unless its Moyes who may be desperate to leave Spain to get back in Premiership.

[Richard]

Bradley or Southgate. If ever there were two names that summed up where we are these days it's them pair.

If they or Sherwood are the best we can do we better start looking forward to away days in the Championship.

and even lower than that I'd wager

[Stevo985]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

im not sure motivation was ever a strong point of his,  if it was I wouldnt have first hand witnessed an abject failure to turn up on the cup final.  He is a chancer nothing more nothing less

That was the moment he lost his ability to motivate us, in my opinion.

I honestly think those "loser" comments before the cup final had an effect. He's never recovered from that.

[Dr_Pangloss]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

im not sure motivation was ever a strong point of his,  if it was I wouldnt have first hand witnessed an abject failure to turn up on the cup final.  He is a chancer nothing more nothing less

To be super charitable, he probably has decent 'short term' motivation skills, and I really have to emphasise 'short term' here.

As much as I hate O'Neil, and felt he was tactically abysmal, he was clearly an exceptional motivator, he got his players to run through brick walls season after season (until they couldn't run anymore as MON didn't know how to rotate his first team effectively).

Point being, MON is a motivator, Sherwood is a **** chancer. 

 

 

 

[AshVilla]

Edited October 21, 2015 by AshVilla

[Guest av1]

Even a Manager having little effect on the team would be better than a Manager having a negative effect on the team.

I'm at the 'anyone but Tim' stage 

[villan_007]

Redknapp with Tim as assistant?

It's ok....I'll shoot myself lads.

[GeordieVillan]

Re: Southgate - is he not credited with laying the foundations for the recovery of Middlesborough which Karanka is now benefitting from?

As others have said - this is the pedigree of manager we are now looking at. At least Bradley and Southgate wouldn't be using us as an escape route, unlike Moyes and to a lesser extent Monk.

Other than MON, our 2 most successful managers in the last 30 years have been Little and Gregory, neither of whom had amazing records prior to taking us over, but they were guys with Villa in their blood....

I'm going to say this now - if Sherwood goes, I would take Southgate.

[TRO]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

but how do you know that......motivation is an abstract......it could be them not responding due to them, not him.

you seem to presume much....you don't know that anymore than I suspect it is the players, not good enough.

Edited October 21, 2015 by TRO

[Stevo985]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

but how do you know that......motivation is an abstract......it could be them not responding due to them, not him

How do I know what?

That Sherwood isn't motivating the players? I watch our games.
Plus there are stats that say we cover less ground than most other Premier League teams, which suggests the players aren't working very hard.

 

Whoever's fault it is, the buck stops with the manager. If the players aren't responding to him then he's not the man for the job. We need to get somebody in who is. Good managers motivate their teams. If Sherwood has already lost the players in this regard then he's not a very good manager (although we already know that).

[markavfc40]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

im not sure motivation was ever a strong point of his,  if it was I wouldnt have first hand witnessed an abject failure to turn up on the cup final.  He is a chancer nothing more nothing less

You may be right as it is possible that with Lambert having lost the plot so badly and gone so negative that Sherwood got an initial reaction out of the players simply by allowing them to take the Lambert shackles off and encouraging them to go out to attack, create chances and score some goals. That I guess can be the trouble with the initial bounce you get from a new manager in that it may not be a long term indicator as to what is to come.

I guess we will find a lot out about Sherwood and his ability to motivate the players, or their willingness to put a shift in for their manager, on Saturday. Given the importance of the game I expect us to come out all guns blazing and really taking the game to Swansea. For what it’s worth I think we’ll win by a couple of goals resulting in Sherwood remaining in post for a while longer at least which as long as he starts to get results suits me fine as that is the bottom line for me.

I have seen some say even if we win on Saturday they want him gone. Those supporters are living in la la land though if they think that could happen. A win gets him till the Watford home at least given the fixtures before that.

I am fortunate I guess as I don’t despise Sherwood like some and remain relatively neutral with him. If he starts to get results then great I am happy to see him stay. If he doesn't immediately get results though, meaning the next game, then I will be happy to see the back of him and see someone else get a chance.