The Tim Sherwood Thread

[Marka Ragnos]

Again, everyone is aware that this club has problems above and beyond Tim Sherwood.

But Tim Sherwood IS a problem. And he's the biggest problem we can actually change.

Ignoring that problem because it isn't the biggest one is waving a white flag.

                   I understand your logic, but thats what we keep doing and it is taking us nowhere.

                   How can anyone be sure, that if the other problems are removed, Tim Sherwood might not be one.

                   How many managers do we crash and burn?..... we are getting through them like kamikaze pilots.

Quite.

Theview of every single pundit and football journalist is the same.....is every one of them Sherwoods mate ?

Us, Sunderland, Newcastle, are going round in circles with fans attacking manager after manager, whilst in each case the owners remain the same.

It's a great shame that each Manager since O Neill has had certain clear faults ( although crucially all different faults to each other) and therefore each time had enough people against them to make them the target.

There is one place and one place only the fans should target, and that is the owner, and the method of attack should be, simply, to stop going.

The only thing money understands is money.

No great loss to stop going anyway !

Agree, other than the not going part - I'll always go.

But you're one of the few people that recognise continually blaming a hand tied manager isn't the solution. It's an easy target and Lerner loves knowing he's avoiding all the stick by placing his newest sacrificial lamb in charge. Nothing will change until he invests or sells.

But I take a little solace in the fact that at least this time Sherwood won't go quietly. Lerner's made a mistake there - Sherwood will turn the focus on the board as will all his mates in the media. That reason alone is almost enough to hope he gets sacked!

I've always maintained changing managers is kind of pointless when you're just looking to survive, the quality needed is much of a muchness and depends more on the quality of the players. I don't judge Sherwood, we'll probably never know what he's capable of here. But sack him, like people screamed for Lambert's head, and you'll appease the masses for another 6 to 12 months before we're all back here again bemoaning the 'rubbish' manager who's in the same situation. 

What is this outbreak of calm sanity on this thread tonight? Things must real real bad ... ;-)

[foreveryoung]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

[jackbauer24]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

People will always blame the manager, especially the more casual fan. And when I mean casual, I don't mean they're not passionate, just the sort of fan who believes a good work ethic and a good team is still all you need. Times have changed, you need to look deeper than that these days but still few do. Arguably most managers are inconsequential to the teams success, working within a window of maybe five places in the league. The real difference between teams is investment and wages, and we severely lack in both departments. Adovocaat is a massive name, but he was never going to turn Sunderland in to title contenders, a manager will always be constrained by the ambition and funds of the club.

And currently we have zero ambition and evidently zero funds. No manager we can get will mean we won't find relegation year on year. I firmly believe that. Get Mourinho in and we'd still figh relegation. That doesn't mean it makes no impact, some managers would relegate us, others would keep us up but all will face this fight until Lerner invests or leaves.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

Honestly could not give a shit about the long term future right now. The club needs to be sold, it is for sale. It is out of my hands.

We desperately need a change of manager. That is the here and now, short term thinking or not.

[Stevo985]

If it's true that we have adopted a moneyball type strategy to player transfers then I wonder is it the case that we appointed Sherwood with the same method, he had the best win ratio of any spurs manager and on paper would of looked good but obviously there is so much more to be considered when hiring a manager.

The sample was way too small to be drawing any lasting conclusions from Tim's win ratio.

His loss ratio would have been taken into account too.

(something I pointed out at the time)

[Grasshopper]

JamieZ

 

Posted 3 hours ago

For what it's worth, I think Bradley would offer exactly what we're lacking as a team and lacking in a manager. He's passionate, committed, detail oriented, and regardless of what people might say, he's tested himself at a high level (Confederations Cup Final, World Cup Finals, winning the group ahead of England). He's the anti-Sherwood. He doesn't run his mouth, he leads by example. He's deliberate. The first thing he'd do is come up with a clear plan that he could articulate to the people around him. People would understand what was expected of them. Players would understand their role. He'd bring stability and common vision to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

I can just see the players faces

"..........You guy, the deee-fence.......... and you dude the offfff-fence.........."

[dn1982]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

People will always blame the manager, especially the more casual fan. And when I mean casual, I don't mean they're not passionate, just the sort of fan who believes a good work ethic and a good team is still all you need. Times have changed, you need to look deeper than that these days but still few do. Arguably most managers are inconsequential to the teams success, working within a window of maybe five places in the league. The real difference between teams is investment and wages, and we severely lack in both departments. Adovocaat is a massive name, but he was never going to turn Sunderland in to title contenders, a manager will always be constrained by the ambition and funds of the club.

And currently we have zero ambition and evidently zero funds. No manager we can get will mean we won't find relegation year on year. I firmly believe that. Get Mourinho in and we'd still figh relegation. That doesn't mean it makes no impact, some managers would relegate us, others would keep us up but all will face this fight until Lerner invests or leaves.

 think people are blaming this manager because of his tactics, team selections, substitutions and his leaks to the press! In the main most would say we have a decent squad maybe just lacking the guaranteed goals. A better manager would get better results I has high hopes for Sherwood but he seems a one trick pony! 

[Grasshopper]

Again, everyone is aware that this club has problems above and beyond Tim Sherwood.

But Tim Sherwood IS a problem. And he's the biggest problem we can actually change.

Ignoring that problem because it isn't the biggest one is waving a white flag.

                   I understand your logic, but thats what we keep doing and it is taking us nowhere.

                   How can anyone be sure, that if the other problems are removed, Tim Sherwood might not be one.

                   How many managers do we crash and burn?..... we are getting through them like kamikaze pilots.

Next

[dounavilla]

JamieZ

 

Posted 3 hours ago

For what it's worth, I think Bradley would offer exactly what we're lacking as a team and lacking in a manager. He's passionate, committed, detail oriented, and regardless of what people might say, he's tested himself at a high level (Confederations Cup Final, World Cup Finals, winning the group ahead of England). He's the anti-Sherwood. He doesn't run his mouth, he leads by example. He's deliberate. The first thing he'd do is come up with a clear plan that he could articulate to the people around him. People would understand what was expected of them. Players would understand their role. He'd bring stability and common vision to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

I can just see the players faces

"..........You guy, the deee-fence.......... and you dude the offfff-fence.........."

Have you been watching Bill & Ted followed by Point Break ?

[Grasshopper]

JamieZ

 

Posted 3 hours ago

For what it's worth, I think Bradley would offer exactly what we're lacking as a team and lacking in a manager. He's passionate, committed, detail oriented, and regardless of what people might say, he's tested himself at a high level (Confederations Cup Final, World Cup Finals, winning the group ahead of England). He's the anti-Sherwood. He doesn't run his mouth, he leads by example. He's deliberate. The first thing he'd do is come up with a clear plan that he could articulate to the people around him. People would understand what was expected of them. Players would understand their role. He'd bring stability and common vision to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

I can just see the players faces

"..........You guy, the deee-fence.......... and you dude the offfff-fence.........."

Have you been watching Bill & Ted followed by Point Break ?

No I work with Americans, I dont have to listen to "their Shyeeet" on TV to know

(Banter - No offff-fence intended)

[TRO]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

[Grasshopper]

I'm going to stick my neck out here and say that, unless we get mauled by Swansea, we should IMO give Sherwood three more league games. Here's why:

The likes of Norwich, Bournemouth, Sunderland, Newcastle and Watford all either play others at the bottom so they either share points or someone gets zero or, they play teams that should (on paper) beat them. Meaning, even if we lose our next three, which a considerable amount of people think we will do, those other teams shouldn't get too far away from us to catch. 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game and MAY possibly be able to spark that performance out of the players that he and we are looking for. The following game is against Man City at home. You'd think that the atmosphere will be electric for that one, especially if a certain WORD REMOVED plays and again, might just work the magic out of the players. 

If Sherwood hasn't cracked it by then we can cut him loose because there's a two week break for the new man to come in and have time working with the players before the next game, which is Everton away. Imagine that for Moyes's first game in charge! 

Whatever you're on, Pleeeeeeeease give me some

[TRO]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

People will always blame the manager, especially the more casual fan. And when I mean casual, I don't mean they're not passionate, just the sort of fan who believes a good work ethic and a good team is still all you need. Times have changed, you need to look deeper than that these days but still few do. Arguably most managers are inconsequential to the teams success, working within a window of maybe five places in the league. The real difference between teams is investment and wages, and we severely lack in both departments. Adovocaat is a massive name, but he was never going to turn Sunderland in to title contenders, a manager will always be constrained by the ambition and funds of the club.

And currently we have zero ambition and evidently zero funds. No manager we can get will mean we won't find relegation year on year. I firmly believe that. Get Mourinho in and we'd still figh relegation. That doesn't mean it makes no impact, some managers would relegate us, others would keep us up but all will face this fight until Lerner invests or leaves.

 A better manager would get better results 

                   you would HOPE, not guaranteed.....all our managers have been better than the last( in theory)

                    and who is this mysterious man that turns water in to wine.

[Neil]

Honestly could not give a shit about the long term future right now. The club needs to be sold, it is for sale. It is out of my hands.

 

We desperately need a change of manager. That is the here and now, short term thinking or not.

Obviously a casual fan response...

I agree with you.

[maqroll]

JamieZ

 

Posted 3 hours ago

For what it's worth, I think Bradley would offer exactly what we're lacking as a team and lacking in a manager. He's passionate, committed, detail oriented, and regardless of what people might say, he's tested himself at a high level (Confederations Cup Final, World Cup Finals, winning the group ahead of England). He's the anti-Sherwood. He doesn't run his mouth, he leads by example. He's deliberate. The first thing he'd do is come up with a clear plan that he could articulate to the people around him. People would understand what was expected of them. Players would understand their role. He'd bring stability and common vision to a team that is sorely lacking in that department.

I can just see the players faces

"..........You guy, the deee-fence.......... and you dude the offfff-fence.........."

 

Really doubt Bradley uses the word "dude"...

 

Edited October 20, 2015 by maqroll

[Grasshopper]

Just before I go to bed

 

SHERWOOD OUT!

[Marka Ragnos]

Bottom line: The very fact that a large bloc of long-time posters on Villa Talk don't like Sherwood -- a number that has grown a lot -- is enough to make me want to see someone new soon. 

We need someone the fans will unite behind.

We all need to be pulling in the same direction.

There's just no other way to save this club.

[GENTLEMAN]

Jenas depicts TS as a bully who undermines others, and not somebody you want managing and building a young team. They need to get rid ASAP, project Sherwood has run its course.

So someone who is passionate, has a rant once in a while when things are bad and tells players the truth is now a bully? 

We are talking about a male dominated, performance related environment are we not? Not trying to be nasty or anything like that but have you spent much time in your life playing football then or in that type of environment? Whereby if your crap at your job or make stupid mistakes you get slated or have the piss taken out of you by your peers? Trying to now turn Sherwood into some sort of bully after a few comments, none of which depict him as a bully at all is just wrong!

I can understand people wanting rid of Sherwood based on results and certain decisions etc(as I do), but some of the nonsense being posted trying to assassinate his character whilst jumping on the bandwagon is just desperate and not required in this instance. Results will remove him from his job soon enough should things continue much longer.

If only Sherwood was a mumbling Scottish manager with no experience of managing a club the size of Villa he would get 2-3 years to turn shit around, even if crap.

 

 

Rightly or wrongly that is my honest interpretation of Jenas' article, which is evidently quite different from yours. Which is fine. My point was that Sherwood comes across as a confrontational bully rather than a competent (or even professional) football manager according to the experiences of Jermaine Jenas.

 

I am still trying to work out what the actual point Jenas is trying to make? It is hardly a ringing endorsement of Sherwood's managerial credentials. It does not even focus on Sherwood's coaching or tactical ability, other than Sherwood has a “simple view of the game”. I fail to see how being angry and confronting people helps Tim Sherwood find a solution to our problems. And neither does Jenas it seems, we are simply doomed whoever is in charge according to JJ– which is so defeatist and uncreative.

 

I do agree that passion and honesty is needed in this environment, and there is a need to confront people over a lack of effort or to check an ego. I am not naïve. But I have to ask where is the passion to defend the club and the players currently? Why did Tim not contest the referee's decision when Veretout was hacked down against Stoke? Where is the honesty in privately leaking information which absolves him of any responsibility? Judging from Jenas' recollections and these recent leaks, it seems his passion and energy are always directed to blaming others when things are not going well.

 

People want me to study Alex Ferguson. Well, I know for certain you would not see SAF slumped back in his chair looking disinterested; or witness his assistants hugging and joking with the opposition manager during a crucial game; and leaving poor refereeing decisions uncontested during and after a match. If you only have the energy to lay into those on your side, then this so called passion and truth will only weaken morale and work against you.

 

It is important to recognise TS is also dealing with young men who are settling into a new country and a highly competitive league. This confrontational and impulsive style will not work, and judging by poor results and performance it has not worked. Sherwood's managerial methods are totally flawed, and I cynically believe these leaks are only being deployed to mask Sherwood's faults and protect his image. It is safe to say TS has one eye on his next job.

 

Finally, I have no idea why you feel the need to reference Paul Lambert? Totally irrelevant and ruins a perfectly fine post. The Lambert era is over.

[villan_007]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

People will always blame the manager, especially the more casual fan. And when I mean casual, I don't mean they're not passionate, just the sort of fan who believes a good work ethic and a good team is still all you need. Times have changed, you need to look deeper than that these days but still few do. Arguably most managers are inconsequential to the teams success, working within a window of maybe five places in the league. The real difference between teams is investment and wages, and we severely lack in both departments. Adovocaat is a massive name, but he was never going to turn Sunderland in to title contenders, a manager will always be constrained by the ambition and funds of the club.

And currently we have zero ambition and evidently zero funds. No manager we can get will mean we won't find relegation year on year. I firmly believe that. Get Mourinho in and we'd still figh relegation. That doesn't mean it makes no impact, some managers would relegate us, others would keep us up but all will face this fight until Lerner invests or leaves.

 A better manager would get better results 

                   you would HOPE, not guaranteed.....all our managers have been better than the last( in theory)

                    and who is this mysterious man that turns water in to wine.

FYI -  You don't need to indent your reply when you quote someone. It's done automatically for you. It's also driving me mad. Pretty please...please stop.

I can't handle this on top of all the other Villa problems.

[ozvillafan]

Just to clarify - Lerner is NOT the problem here. He just sets the constraints.

Yes, those constraints might limit us to the bottom half of the league but no owner would ever place enough limits to confine the team to the bottom 3 places regardless of which manager is in charge.

Sherwood needs to go not because we are expecting too much of his squad - his current squad, imo, is easily better than anything the previous incumbent had to work with - he needs to go because he is getting waaaaay less out of his squad than can reasonably be demanded.