The Tim Sherwood Thread

[TRO]

Winning is what we all want, that is an overwhelming fact.

The rest is just pure conjecture of what the problem is.....no one REALLY knows, so speculation is running riot.

getting rid of the manager particularly so soon in a new season with new players is like chopping folks hands off for stealing.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

the managers job at b6 is fast becoming a duck shoot.

[TRO]

The wrong appointment from day one - inexperienced and a reknowned loudmouth (not an insult just a fact). He delivered 1.2 points a game to stumble over the line one place above the drop. Nothing amazing, Just enough. I'd argue that Benteke's return to fitness and form had more to do with that than Sherwood.

The writing was on the wall from the last two games of the season - a drubbing from Southampton and an insipid display against Burnley

The overwhelming consensus was that we had a squad worthy over lower midtable and again the overwhelming consensus was that we had done ok in the transfer market and again should have been looking at 10th-14th

4 points from the last 33 possible says it all for me. Our worst ever start to a season in living memory.

The things that he had in his favour from day one - a clear commitment to attacking football and a reputation for getting the best out of young players have been ditched as soon as the going gets tough

The recent comments, from him and his media mates are embarassing the club

There is a lot wrong with AV at the moment and a change of manager won't put everything right but without an immediate change this will be the season that we quietly slip out of the PL

                     You maybe right with all of that.

                      but tell me this, the popular vote was that we did a good bit of business during the summer as you say,

                       ...... based on exactly what?

It can't be based on anything........its all opinions

There is no way to know if the players bought in the summer are good players being held back by a poor manager or vice versa. 

My point was that the overwhelming majority of the fan base thought that we had done good business.  Certainly, 99% of people would feel that we have enough in the squad to above the likes of Bournemouth. Norwich and Watford for example

You may be buying into the spin (probably driven by Sherwood) that now we are struggling, the players are to blame

                    I am not buying in to any alleged spin.....I am merely questioning.

                     I must confess, I was one of the 99%......but I am now questioning my initial reaction, based on what I have been watching.

                     I am not as convinced as some on here that is ALL manager.

                     I suspect it is a combination.

 

 

 

[dudevillaisnice]

I have seen some say even if we win on Saturday they want him gone. Those supporters are living in la la land though if they think that could happen. A win gets him till the Watford home at least given the fixtures before that.

Err I wouldn't be too sure about that. He is a walking car crash with the media at the moment, that will not sit pretty with those in the boardroom.

Even those in charge aren't that naive to think one game solves everything.

[Stevo985]

Winning is what we all want, that is an overwhelming fact.

The rest is just pure conjecture of what the problem is.....no one REALLY knows, so speculation is running riot.

getting rid of the manager particularly so soon in a new season with new players is like chopping folks hands off for stealing.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

the managers job at b6 is fast becoming a duck shoot.

But there is no other solution. That's the problem/

You keep referring to the other problems at Villa. We're all aware of them. But we can't change the owner. We can't make him invest more money this season. We can't change the playing staff at this stage.

What the club can do, is change the man managing the team. It's clear that Tim is underperforming. He is the only problem we can rectify.

He MIGHT turn things around and solve that problem himself. But I don't think any of us really believe he will do that. We're relegated if we keep Sherwood.

We have to change something.

[Guest av1]

 

I have seen some say even if we win on Saturday they want him gone. Those supporters are living in la la land though if they think that could happen. A win gets him till the Watford home at least given the fixtures before that.

Err I wouldn't be too sure about that. He is a walking car crash with the media at the moment, that will not sit pretty with those in the boardroom.

Even those in charge aren't that naive to think one game solves everything.

Im not sure mate. They should have sacked him before the international break, they could have sacked him after Chelsea. I agree with you that he's needs to go asp, and I also agree that one win doesn't solve everything, but having missed a couple of ideal opportunities to sack him over the last couple of weeks I can not see the club sacking him after a win.

[TRO]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

but how do you know that......motivation is an abstract......it could be them not responding due to them, not him

How do I know what?

That Sherwood isn't motivating the players? I watch our games.
Plus there are stats that say we cover less ground than most other Premier League teams, which suggests the players aren't working very hard.

 

Whoever's fault it is, the buck stops with the manager. If the players aren't responding to him then he's not the man for the job. We need to get somebody in who is. Good managers motivate their teams. If Sherwood has already lost the players in this regard then he's not a very good manager (although we already know that).

                  How do you know that our poor results are the result of Sherwood not motivating the players....I watch the same games as you.....I see a bunch of players, who are making so many individual errors, that it's affecting our results.

                    You say it's sherwoods fault in a manner that there is no doubt.....I think there is much doubt, that it is a singular problem.

[Stevo985]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

but how do you know that......motivation is an abstract......it could be them not responding due to them, not him

How do I know what?

That Sherwood isn't motivating the players? I watch our games.
Plus there are stats that say we cover less ground than most other Premier League teams, which suggests the players aren't working very hard.

 

Whoever's fault it is, the buck stops with the manager. If the players aren't responding to him then he's not the man for the job. We need to get somebody in who is. Good managers motivate their teams. If Sherwood has already lost the players in this regard then he's not a very good manager (although we already know that).

                  How do you know that our poor results are the result of Sherwood not motivating the players....I watch the same games as you.....I see a bunch of players, who are making so many individual errors, that it's affecting our results.

                    You say it's sherwoods fault in a manner that there is no doubt.....I think there is much doubt, that it is a singular problem.

Our poor results are the result of a number of things. I never said they were solely down to a lack of motivation.

Read this very quote tree. You were the one who was talking about motivation. You said the players weren't up for it. I merely said that if that's a problem then it's Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players is one of the most important things a manager has to do. I'm sure some would argue it's THE most important thing. If you're saying the players aren't motivated then that is a huge problem, and if it's a problem then it is Sherwood's fault. I don't know how you can deny that a lack of motivation in the squad is the manager's fault.

Edited October 21, 2015 by Stevo985

[AvfcTheObsession]

I've seen a couple of comments about the manager's seat in B6 being a revolving chair, and that we can't just keep sacking managers, etc. The reality is we don't change managers any more often than most do, the average tenure of a PL manager is 1.8 years. We kept Lambert nearly 3 years. People keep wanting the dream appointment who will build a legacy, it isn't realistic. Even teams that are over-achieving and have done well in recent years outside of the top 6 (the group we are in), like Swansea and Southampton change manager regularly. Off the top of my head Rodgers, Laudrup and Monk have all managed Swansea in the last 3 years, Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman have all managed Southampton in the last 3 years. Changing manager every year or 2 doesn't have to be a problem, if you get the right structure in place.

[dn1982]

The plan should be, give Sherwood the Swansea game to fully prove he is shite (because obviously we will lose), ok, yes he may come good, but its obvious he is never gonna be able handle the pressure of managing a huge club like AVFC. Next, get Moyes (agreed not the best) give him 25 million in January, which won't bankrupt the club or Lerner, an see how we go from there. 

If we are still shite, then we can blame the club, players, Fox. But I very much doubt we will be able to continue to blame the manager!

People will always blame the manager, especially the more casual fan. And when I mean casual, I don't mean they're not passionate, just the sort of fan who believes a good work ethic and a good team is still all you need. Times have changed, you need to look deeper than that these days but still few do. Arguably most managers are inconsequential to the teams success, working within a window of maybe five places in the league. The real difference between teams is investment and wages, and we severely lack in both departments. Adovocaat is a massive name, but he was never going to turn Sunderland in to title contenders, a manager will always be constrained by the ambition and funds of the club.

And currently we have zero ambition and evidently zero funds. No manager we can get will mean we won't find relegation year on year. I firmly believe that. Get Mourinho in and we'd still figh relegation. That doesn't mean it makes no impact, some managers would relegate us, others would keep us up but all will face this fight until Lerner invests or leaves.

 A better manager would get better results 

                   you would HOPE, not guaranteed.....all our managers have been better than the last( in theory)

                    and who is this mysterious man that turns water in to wine.

a better manager wouldn't be making the mistakes that's for sure which I'd hope would lead to better results!! 

[dn1982]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

im not sure motivation was ever a strong point of his,  if it was I wouldnt have first hand witnessed an abject failure to turn up on the cup final.  He is a chancer nothing more nothing less

 

You may be right as it is possible that with Lambert having lost the plot so badly and gone so negative that Sherwood got an initial reaction out of the players simply by allowing them to take the Lambert shackles off and encouraging them to go out to attack, create chances and score some goals. That I guess can be the trouble with the initial bounce you get from a new manager in that it may not be a long term indicator as to what is to come.

 

I guess we will find a lot out about Sherwood and his ability to motivate the players, or their willingness to put a shift in for their manager, on Saturday. Given the importance of the game I expect us to come out all guns blazing and really taking the game to Swansea. For what it’s worth I think we’ll win by a couple of goals resulting in Sherwood remaining in post for a while longer at least which as long as he starts to get results suits me fine as that is the bottom line for me.

 

I have seen some say even if we win on Saturday they want him gone. Those supporters are living in la la land though if they think that could happen. A win gets him till the Watford home at least given the fixtures before that.

 

I am fortunate I guess as I don’t despise Sherwood like some and remain relatively neutral with him. If he starts to get results then great I am happy to see him stay. If he doesn't immediately get results though, meaning the next game, then I will be happy to see the back of him and see someone else get a chance.

 

This is where I'm at but the difference being I can't see us winning on Saturday. I think coming out into the press and slagging off the new signings will come back to haunt him and they won't put a shift in for him. It's easy to go to Chelsea when you're expected to lose but at home needing to win is a different prospect. I'd love us to win and for Sherwood to shut up and get us attacking again like we did when he 1st came. I just can't see it. 

[TRO]

 

I'm thinking that we play Spurs and you'd think that Sherwood would be right up for that game

                 You make it sound like he's a player......I think he has been right up for every game.....its the players being up for it, is in doubt.

Which is Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players was meant to be what he's good at. Without that, I'm not sure what positives he brings to the role.

but how do you know that......motivation is an abstract......it could be them not responding due to them, not him

How do I know what?

That Sherwood isn't motivating the players? I watch our games.
Plus there are stats that say we cover less ground than most other Premier League teams, which suggests the players aren't working very hard.

 

Whoever's fault it is, the buck stops with the manager. If the players aren't responding to him then he's not the man for the job. We need to get somebody in who is. Good managers motivate their teams. If Sherwood has already lost the players in this regard then he's not a very good manager (although we already know that).

                  How do you know that our poor results are the result of Sherwood not motivating the players....I watch the same games as you.....I see a bunch of players, who are making so many individual errors, that it's affecting our results.

                    You say it's sherwoods fault in a manner that there is no doubt.....I think there is much doubt, that it is a singular problem.

Our poor results are the result of a number of things. I never said they were solely down to a lack of motivation.

Read this very quote tree. You were the one who was talking about motivation. You said the players weren't up for it. I merely said that if that's a problem then it's Sherwood's fault.

Motivating players is one of the most important things a manager has to do. I'm sure some would argue it's THE most important thing. If you're saying the players aren't motivated then that is a huge problem, and if it's a problem then it is Sherwood's fault. I don't know how you can deny that a lack of motivation in the squad is the manager's fault.

 

                  I never mentioned the word motivation.....The word I used is "Character" which is intrinsic, I don't happen to see much on match day.Managers cannot guarantee to instill character in a player, they can work on them, its a process which takes time.....something Tim Sherwood hasn't got.

                  I do understand your point about changing the manager, I accept that it is the common denominator in all of this, but I also believe you can change the bowler, but don't change the bowling.

                 A new manager might make the difference, I can't say he won't anymore than you can say he will, But I accept that it might be our only chance and when relegation is at stake it might be a chance worth taking.

                  I think we have been here too many times now and I think that Stan Collymore has a point, even if it has been derived from a personal issue.

[HeyAnty]

I've seen a couple of comments about the manager's seat in B6 being a revolving chair, and that we can't just keep sacking managers, etc. The reality is we don't change managers any more often than most do, the average tenure of a PL manager is 1.8 years. We kept Lambert nearly 3 years. People keep wanting the dream appointment who will build a legacy, it isn't realistic. Even teams that are over-achieving and have done well in recent years outside of the top 6 (the group we are in), like Swansea and Southampton change manager regularly. Off the top of my head Rodgers, Laudrup and Monk have all managed Swansea in the last 3 years, Adkins, Pochettino and Koeman have all managed Southampton in the last 3 years. Changing manager every year or 2 doesn't have to be a problem, if you get the right structure in place.

Correct, and Houliear was forced upon us due to his health.  McLeish was really the only one and he should never have been appointed in the first place.

[VillaCas]

.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

what would a "much more intelligent solution" look like exactly?

[VillaCas]

The wrong appointment from day one - inexperienced and a reknowned loudmouth (not an insult just a fact). He delivered 1.2 points a game to stumble over the line one place above the drop. Nothing amazing, Just enough. I'd argue that Benteke's return to fitness and form had more to do with that than Sherwood.

The writing was on the wall from the last two games of the season - a drubbing from Southampton and an insipid display against Burnley

The overwhelming consensus was that we had a squad worthy over lower midtable and again the overwhelming consensus was that we had done ok in the transfer market and again should have been looking at 10th-14th

4 points from the last 33 possible says it all for me. Our worst ever start to a season in living memory.

The things that he had in his favour from day one - a clear commitment to attacking football and a reputation for getting the best out of young players have been ditched as soon as the going gets tough

The recent comments, from him and his media mates are embarassing the club

There is a lot wrong with AV at the moment and a change of manager won't put everything right but without an immediate change this will be the season that we quietly slip out of the PL

                     You maybe right with all of that.

                      but tell me this, the popular vote was that we did a good bit of business during the summer as you say,

                       ...... based on exactly what?

It can't be based on anything........its all opinions

There is no way to know if the players bought in the summer are good players being held back by a poor manager or vice versa. 

My point was that the overwhelming majority of the fan base thought that we had done good business.  Certainly, 99% of people would feel that we have enough in the squad to above the likes of Bournemouth. Norwich and Watford for example

You may be buying into the spin (probably driven by Sherwood) that now we are struggling, the players are to blame

                    I am not buying in to any alleged spin.....I am merely questioning.

                     I must confess, I was one of the 99%......but I am now questioning my initial reaction, based on what I have been watching.

                     I am not as convinced as some on here that is ALL manager.

                     I suspect it is a combination.

 

 

 

I think very few if any think it's all the manager. We've got lots of other problems too but the manager is the one that we are able to change now 

to be clear, are you backing Sherwood or do you think he should go now?

[TRO]

Winning is what we all want, that is an overwhelming fact.

The rest is just pure conjecture of what the problem is.....no one REALLY knows, so speculation is running riot.

getting rid of the manager particularly so soon in a new season with new players is like chopping folks hands off for stealing.....it may have the desired effect, but is it right and is there a much more intelligent solution.

the managers job at b6 is fast becoming a duck shoot.

 

But there is no other solution. That's the problem/

You keep referring to the other problems at Villa. We're all aware of them. But we can't change the owner. We can't make him invest more money this season. We can't change the playing staff at this stage.

What the club can do, is change the man managing the team. It's clear that Tim is underperforming. He is the only problem we can rectify.

He MIGHT turn things around and solve that problem himself. But I don't think any of us really believe he will do that. We're relegated if we keep Sherwood.

We have to change something.

                 

   I didn't allude to the owner, albeit he is not to be absolved.....I can only speculate where the other problems are and what use is that?....its just wild speculation, because I'm not close enough to the nuts and bolts of it all. I can only go on what I see on match day.

We have all been watching the game a long time and there is much that we know about how the game is played. what we don't know is: how long does an injury take?( even depending on its specifics)...... How long does it take to turn a team around that is struggling?.....Is a player mentally prepared for a game?  a crucial player is carrying and injury, how long can we get out of him in a match. There are many more crucial elements, we as fans are not privvy to, when we make our judgments.

I am slowly getting to the stage where, I think we are just papering over the cracks by constantly changing managers.

so, you are going to ask me, whats the answer.

realistically, I don't know......especially as the owner wants to sell.

 

   

[dudevillaisnice]

 

Aston Villa are looking to Scotland for potential replacements for
Tim Sherwood

with Derek McInnes and Mark Warburton both on their radar, HITC Sport understands.

David Moyes is widely reported to be at the top of Villa’s list, but HITC Sport understands that the highly-rated duo of McInnes and Warburton are also being closely monitored.

McInnes has led Aberdeen through an impressive start to the new season, and although their form has dipped in recent weeks – their progress on a tight budget has impressed a number of clubs south of the border.

Former West Bromwich Albion boss McInnes still has strong ties in the Midlands, and Villa are understood to be very impressed with the ex-Scotland international.

http://www.hitc.com/en-gb/2015/10/21/aston-villa-monitoring-scottish-market-as-tim-sherwood-fights-fo/

Graeme Bailey used to work for Sky.

Edited October 21, 2015 by dudevillaisnice

[Zatman]

Lambert, McLeish, O;Neill

I hope we stay the **** away from Scotland

 

[StefanAVFC]

Alex Neil seems to be doing well.

[GENTLEMAN]

Mark Warburton has a 93% win record. 

[useless]

Not sure how you go from David Moyes to some of the names being mentioned North of the Border/ Bob Bradley. Surely if we can afford Moyes then we can afford a candidate with a similar standing should he turn us down. I thought with Fox and Almstadt here we might be more open to going for someone from abroad (as in mainland Europe).