The Tim Sherwood Thread

[OneNightInRotterdam]

Love how we all suggest managers. But with Sherwood here still I can't see the club even considering a plan B.

Must be one of the worst run clubs in the PL.

Edited October 9, 2015 by OneNightInRotterdam

[BOF]

I don't think you become a badly run club just because you have a shit manager.  Fox has done everything well so far.  Sherwood doesn't look like working out and that's the nature of the business.  It's how quickly and how well you deal with the next step that goes towards determining how well run your club is.  Ignoring the lack of finances from above (we are for sale after all) and the lack of leadership from Sherwood, I believe all the bits in between those 2 are in place and I'm happy with them.  The likes of Fox, Reilly, Almstadt, the introduction of Wijeratna etc.  All positives IMV.  I even believe we've a good squad capable of far more than they're currently achieving.  Nope, once we get a good manager in, I think we could be in very decent shape.  Then just get ourselves a new owner ... which goes back to relegation.  It will be a whole helluva lot easier to find one of those while we're a Premier League side.

[Grasshopper]

Looking at Tuckman's 5 stages of group development, (There's Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing and then finally Mourning...) - Seems that Tim doesn't understand or embrace this proven concept. It seems we've been stuck in the Storming phase are showing no signs of getting out of it. For the uninitiated, Forming is when a group comes together (or signed by the club - so pre-season), which was ongoing all through the transfer window. When a new member comes into a group, the cycle reverts to the forming phase. The storming phase is the power struggle in the group, people vye for position, like the leader, the alpha male, etc and disagreements can occur. Norming is when things start to settle down and a spot of group cohesion emerges, whilst performing is when everything is ticking along and the team are performing and getting results. Mourning is when someone leaves or the group is disbanded.

If I had to put a guess to it, I would say that we're at the storming stage, but knocking at the door of norming now. With a ridiculous amount of changes this was always going to be a long process. Whilst I think TS is rubbish and a chancer and that I would love to see him replaced with someone more capable, I just fear we'll start the cycle all over again with a new manager, it would probably be a quicker process, although sometimes an anomaly occurs and it the group sticks together and the process isn't repeated, it'll be just that "Performing" will be exaggerated.

TS needs to embrace this concept quickly because through the years it's been a proven model and example of how groups come together.

sport, especially football, and arts have their own set of rules and facets.

anyone can set a formular in business that will work in a set of production/distribution/proportional success in relation to quality, VFM supply & demand.

Football is its own animal

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Looking at Tuckman's 5 stages of group development, (There's Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing and then finally Mourning...) - Seems that Tim doesn't understand or embrace this proven concept. It seems we've been stuck in the Storming phase are showing no signs of getting out of it. For the uninitiated, Forming is when a group comes together (or signed by the club - so pre-season), which was ongoing all through the transfer window. When a new member comes into a group, the cycle reverts to the forming phase. The storming phase is the power struggle in the group, people vye for position, like the leader, the alpha male, etc and disagreements can occur. Norming is when things start to settle down and a spot of group cohesion emerges, whilst performing is when everything is ticking along and the team are performing and getting results. Mourning is when someone leaves or the group is disbanded.

If I had to put a guess to it, I would say that we're at the storming stage, but knocking at the door of norming now. With a ridiculous amount of changes this was always going to be a long process. Whilst I think TS is rubbish and a chancer and that I would love to see him replaced with someone more capable, I just fear we'll start the cycle all over again with a new manager, it would probably be a quicker process, although sometimes an anomaly occurs and it the group sticks together and the process isn't repeated, it'll be just that "Performing" will be exaggerated.

TS needs to embrace this concept quickly because through the years it's been a proven model and example of how groups come together.

sport, especially football, and arts have their own set of rules and facets.

anyone can set a formular in business that will work in a set of production/distribution/proportional success in relation to quality, VFM supply & demand.

Football is its own animal

Group dynamics are the same everywhere. That's why it's important to have a manager, whose responsibility isn't only the football tactics or whatever other field of work it is. 

[markavfc40]

As much as I would not be against Sherwood being given more time perhaps our board need to react as Liverpool has it seems. Klopp was available and clearly that wasn't going to remain the case for too much longer so they decided to get shot of Rodgers early in the season and take advantage of the fact that they could get Klopp.

We are now in a situation where we have had a diabolical start to the season and things may or may not get better but there are currently two managers out of work in Allardyce and Rodgers who for me at least look a much safer bet to secure our top flight status.

I don’t think for a second Sherwood gets sacked pre Swansea at the very earliest but I hope if things don’t improve and we do sack him that we aren't left ruing having missed out on ideal replacements had we have acted sooner.

[OneNightInRotterdam]

As much as I would not be against Sherwood being given more time perhaps our board need to react as Liverpool has it seems. Klopp was available and clearly that wasn't going to remain the case for too much longer so they decided to get shot of Rodgers early in the season and take advantage of the fact that they could get Klopp.

 

We are now in a situation where we have had a diabolical start to the season and things may or may not get better but there are currently two managers out of work in Allardyce and Rodgers who for me at least look a much safer bet to secure our top flight status.

 

I don’t think for a second Sherwood gets sacked pre Swansea at the very earliest but I hope if things don’t improve and we do sack him that we aren't left ruing having missed out on ideal replacements had we have acted sooner.

 

^ This.  We missed out on managers last year because we left it so late. 

Hope we pull our finger out if its clear we Haven't improved after the break. 

Edited October 9, 2015 by OneNightInRotterdam

[Villarocker]

Sometimes I look at this thread and think to myself "He's gone then" because all I see are people suggesting this and that name. So, with that in mind, shall we just all pretend he's gone and make it in to a guessing game as to whom will be replacing him? Might make better reading than "as he gone yet?"

[BOF]

Sometimes I look at this thread and think to myself "He's gone then" because all I see are people suggesting this and that name. So, with that in mind, shall we just all pretend he's gone and make it in to a guessing game as to whom will be replacing him? Might make better reading than "as he gone yet?"

I thought that's what we'd already done   Self-fulfilling prophecy 'n all that

[Thug]

Its his tactical naivety that really worries me.

I'm still reeling from the Leicester debacle.  Utterly bizarre.

 

I don't care what kind of football we play for the next 2-3 seasons.  Just need a steady ship, because relegation would be a disaster, and recovery these days is not a routine thing.  My vote is get Allardyce in.  Sort out the mess.  Then move on.

[bobzy]

 

I don't think we can say either way.  He went to relegation-favourites Borussia Monchengladbach so... why not Villa?  Plenty of financial clout (even with Lerner, we outspend most European teams), plenty of improvement to be made, potential platform for managing one of the bigger clubs etc. etc.  He fashioned MCG into a lovely counter-attacking team and that's pretty much what we're made up to be.

I honestly shudder to think what Allardyce would do with players such as Grealish and Gil.  They just aren't the kind of powerful players that he likes to go for.  Richards, Gueye and Gestede would absolutely fit the bill as the spine of our side under his sort of reign, which I have no real problem with, but our current "darlings" would suffer IMO.

Maybe Favre wouldn't fancy it.  Likely, he'll never be approached.  However, that's the sort of manager I'd like to see us go for.  People seem to think managers like Pulis or Allardyce mean guaranteed Premier League survival.  This simply isn't the case - although we'd certainly be a more organised team.

In short, Ancelotti/Klopp/unrealistic other options > progressive foreign coach > Allardyce-type > Pulis-type > Sherwood > McLeish.

I think the Grealish and Gil comment is lazy.

It is lazy, pretty sure Big Sam signed Youri Djorkaeff, Jay Jay Okocha, Nicolas Anelka to name but a few

You're misunderstanding.  Both Okocha and Anelka are (were) powerful players.  I'm not saying Allardyce doesn't like technically gifted players, I'm saying he likes players who are powerful (I can't include Djorkaeff here as I don't properly remember seeing him play.  He was quite slight from memory?).  This is neither Grealish nor Gil.

Traore, for example, I could imagine fitting nicely into an Allardyce side.  Quick, strong, good outlet - perfect.

Obviously, managers will inevitably sign a multitude of different players.  I'm not saying Big Sam only goes for certain types (who does?!), but he certainly has a trend.

[AshVilla]

Sometimes I look at this thread and think to myself "He's gone then" because all I see are people suggesting this and that name. So, with that in mind, shall we just all pretend he's gone and make it in to a guessing game as to whom will be replacing him? Might make better reading than "as he gone yet?"

Well he is going it's just a question of when

He's proving to be a worse manager than Lambert if that's even possible

Edited October 9, 2015 by AshVilla

[BOF]

It was said by some while Lambert was here that it was very very possible to be a worse manager than him.

[sne]

It was said by some while Lambert was here that it was very very possible to be a worse manager than him.

To be fair I (and I guess many others) didn't really count Tim Sherwood as a proper manager.

Fwiw I still don't

[KHV]

 

I don't think we can say either way.  He went to relegation-favourites Borussia Monchengladbach so... why not Villa?  Plenty of financial clout (even with Lerner, we outspend most European teams), plenty of improvement to be made, potential platform for managing one of the bigger clubs etc. etc.  He fashioned MCG into a lovely counter-attacking team and that's pretty much what we're made up to be.

I honestly shudder to think what Allardyce would do with players such as Grealish and Gil.  They just aren't the kind of powerful players that he likes to go for.  Richards, Gueye and Gestede would absolutely fit the bill as the spine of our side under his sort of reign, which I have no real problem with, but our current "darlings" would suffer IMO.

Maybe Favre wouldn't fancy it.  Likely, he'll never be approached.  However, that's the sort of manager I'd like to see us go for.  People seem to think managers like Pulis or Allardyce mean guaranteed Premier League survival.  This simply isn't the case - although we'd certainly be a more organised team.

In short, Ancelotti/Klopp/unrealistic other options > progressive foreign coach > Allardyce-type > Pulis-type > Sherwood > McLeish.

I think the Grealish and Gil comment is lazy.

It is lazy, pretty sure Big Sam signed Youri Djorkaeff, Jay Jay Okocha, Nicolas Anelka to name but a few

You're misunderstanding.  Both Okocha and Anelka are (were) powerful players.  I'm not saying Allardyce doesn't like technically gifted players, I'm saying he likes players who are powerful (I can't include Djorkaeff here as I don't properly remember seeing him play.  He was quite slight from memory?).  This is neither Grealish nor Gil.

Traore, for example, I could imagine fitting nicely into an Allardyce side.  Quick, strong, good outlet - perfect.

Obviously, managers will inevitably sign a multitude of different players.  I'm not saying Big Sam only goes for certain types (who does?!), but he certainly has a trend.

Ahhh right, sorry misunderstood!  Yeah Gil and Grealish are lightweight, if a manger was to come in and get results excluding those two then I would be fine with that. If dropping Gil and Grealish gets points on the board then so be it.

[Stevo985]

Yeah I misunderstood you there as well bobz. I thought you were being lazy in so much as saying Sam was just a long ball hoof and chase merchant and Gil and Grealish wouldn't fit in to that. Apologies.

[GarethRDR]

Shouts for Favre, I just don't think he'd either want or have the bottle for this shitemare of a job.  When he took the 'Gladbach reins, he was coming back into a role from the managerial wilderness, so at the moment (in spite of the shambolic start to the Bundesliga campaign) his stock will be high enough to interest better teams than us.  Add to that the manner of his walkout plus the fact he had to be convinced not to throw in the towel several times during the course of his BMG stewardship, like I say I just don't think he'd have the stomach.

Heart says yes, head says no.

Edited October 9, 2015 by GarethRDR
Shame and self-loathing.

[BOF]

*reins

[GarethRDR]

[romavillan]

Can't see Le Favre coming. I'd like Montella, we can offer big money with respect to most Serie A sides and the only step up from where he was is to a champions league club. Garcia has just signed a new deal, Juve are in trouble but look to be sticking to their guns. He might fancy a spell in England to get some experience and build his reputation some more. 

Di Matteo is available, and if nothing else has shown he can organise a defence

Apart from that, of the available managers, there's not many with a good record that are gettable. We should try for Rodgers if Sherwood is a dead man walking, Allardyce too would do. I bet we'd consider Pearson but I'd prefer not to. 

We are in such limbo now, I'm just waiting and waiting till we get completely humbled at the Bridge, it's like a death sentence. Be very interesting to see Sherwood's reaction and the club's reacton to that.

[Nostarapter]

I have been on Sherwoods side so far! But the two games that stick out for me are Leicester and Stoke that have changed my mind. Both games we should of won imo for different reasons, and the two games were obvious in the way of what to do tactics wise. But he got it so badly wrong and at this level you can't get away with it. Even with the new players and all that settling in, I can not excuse those glaring mistakes.