Rolta Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, CVByrne said: Yes, all AFTER Disney bought the company in 2009. The Comics are no different to anything else that is put out by Disney. I have no issue with any diversity in anything. I have issue with bad writing being the reason for so many bad TV shows and the social justice / political agenda that is pushed is to create Mary Sue's as this is how the agenda is best pushed. Writing a good show is not the goal. To make a show or movie you need a character arc and thus the protagonist has to have flaws or weaknesses. This is not allowed in the rules of the political agenda because anything being called a "weakness" is essentially going to be offensive to some group somewhere. Thus the protagonists are required to be perfect and thus no character arc. Then things are made worse in many of the scripts / shows as they need to then portray white men as essentially the evil. When the core tenet of the whole project is to push a social / political agenda it's essentially impossible to have a good story and engaging script. The statements in this sentence don't fit together. They've been rammed together. There have been inclusive and well written 'SJW' films and TV shows and books throughout history. Their number are abundant and they span maybe over a hundred years—Dickens, Star Trek, even Gremlins springs to mind. That's three off the cuff examples, but the truth is a huge proportion of stories produced over time could be upsettingly called 'SJ' whatever if you willingly want to frame them that way. The problem is that now being inclusive has been politicised as a wedge issue and some people watch too much YouTube and get upset too easily. But yes, I do agree that Rey is a Mary Sue, and I also think that JJ Abrams ruined both Star Trek and Star Wars. But I've also seen JJ Abrams' other shit films when he wasn't confirming some of the biases you bring up, and they were just as bad. So it's just as easy to blame him for Rey becuase he is a crap filmmaker. I also saw Rhian Johnson's not shit films where sometimes he goes as far as to (presumingly upsettingly) cast non-white people as the main sympathetic character and a load of white people as non-sympathetic characters, and it (Knives Out) was really well written and actually good. Edit: I wanted to add I think there is another huge Mary Sue equivalent in a JJ Abrams film...Tom Cruise in MI3 (gah maybe I'm misremembering, maybe it was 4, so it would be Brad Bird). In whichever film as I remember he recalls a billion digit number perfectly that he memorised in moments. Anyway, bad writing is everywhere. Edited June 28, 2022 by Rolta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 17 hours ago, Rolta said: The statements in this sentence don't fit together. They've been rammed together. There have been inclusive and well written 'SJW' films and TV shows and books throughout history. Their number are abundant and they span maybe over a hundred years—Dickens, Star Trek, even Gremlins springs to mind. That's three off the cuff examples, but the truth is a huge proportion of stories produced over time could be upsettingly called 'SJ' whatever if you willingly want to frame them that way. The problem is that now being inclusive has been politicised as a wedge issue and some people watch too much YouTube and get upset too easily. But yes, I do agree that Rey is a Mary Sue, and I also think that JJ Abrams ruined both Star Trek and Star Wars. But I've also seen JJ Abrams' other shit films when he wasn't confirming some of the biases you bring up, and they were just as bad. So it's just as easy to blame him for Rey becuase he is a crap filmmaker. I also saw Rhian Johnson's not shit films where sometimes he goes as far as to (presumingly upsettingly) cast non-white people as the main sympathetic character and a load of white people as non-sympathetic characters, and it (Knives Out) was really well written and actually good. Edit: I wanted to add I think there is another huge Mary Sue equivalent in a JJ Abrams film...Tom Cruise in MI3 (gah maybe I'm misremembering, maybe it was 4, so it would be Brad Bird). In whichever film as I remember he recalls a billion digit number perfectly that he memorised in moments. Anyway, bad writing is everywhere. Of course there has been many SJW films, TV shows, books before. Many good ones. The issue is with the modern incarnation to create perfect characters without weaknesses like Rey in Star Wars as an example. In a very cynical way beloved things have been commandeered by big companies to push the SJW agenda via these Mary Sue protagonists. Star Wars being the obvious example where everyone from the previous 6 films were ultimately irrelevant and ultimately inferior to Rey, who didn't need any training from a white male she was always better than them from the moment the first movie started. This way of writing inherently make the movies bad, as the characters are so poor because the agenda being pushed trumps interesting flawed characters with story arcs. The point of the message is all humans are perfect the way they are and there is no such thing as a weakness or flaw, everything is merely a feature of that persons identity. In the modern SJW world if you choose to eat a terrible diet and become obese with all the health issues that you will suffer because of your own choices, you are still as perfect as a person who wants to eat all the tasty food but has self restraint and puts work in to exercise. The message is you don't need to work for anything in life, you are perfect the way you are and in everything you do and you always were. People who work hard are no better than lazy people who don't want to work. None of this has anything to do with gender or race or anything like that. It's simply to do with good writing and entertainment. There have been many incredible female protagonists prior to the modern movement. Ellen Ripley and Sarah Connor, take the first two movies of both Alien and Terminator. The arc of those character to the ultimate bad asses they end up being. Brilliant scripts and story. You cannot have that in the modern movies because there can't be a weakness with the protagonist, like fear, indecision, helplessness and god forbid being protective mothers!!! That both those characters had things to overcome in those movies prior to straight up confronting the nemesis in the final act of the 2nd movies in particular, that is what made those movies so great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Just finished the final episode of Obi and thought I'd come and read this thread. What the ****. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 29, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 29, 2022 16 minutes ago, DCJonah said: Just finished the final episode of Obi and thought I'd come and read this thread. What the ****. I know! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_75 Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 13 hours ago, DCJonah said: Just finished the final episode of Obi and thought I'd come and read this thread. What the ****. 13 hours ago, TheAuthority said: I know! My mind is totally blown with all this SJW and Mary Sue stuff. I had to google it and I'm still puzzled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 I've watched 4 episodes of Obi-wan, and my take away so far is its appallingly badly written. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 17 minutes ago, Chindie said: I've watched 4 episodes of Obi-wan, and my take away so far is its appallingly badly written. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Chindie said: I've watched 4 episodes of Obi-wan, and my take away so far is its appallingly badly written. Theres zero point to it. Everything is exactly where it was at the start. Spoiler Also, so we are meant to believe that Obi Wan, again, walks away from Vader leaving him half dead and not finishing him off. Seems a little irresponsible knowing how evil he is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 4 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Theres zero point to it. Everything is exactly where it was at the start. Hide contents Also, so we are meant to believe that Obi Wan, again, walks away from Vader leaving him half dead and not finishing him off. Seems a little irresponsible knowing how evil he is. Spoiler And nobody bloody question the decision either. Yeah I had him beat and he was half dead but walked away. That’s him telt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Brumerican said: There's dozens of bits like this. The one that really stood out for me... Spoiler Episode 3, the Vader moment. Vader is portrayed as being obsessed with getting Obi-wan, his sole driving aim is finding him and punishing him. And eventually he catches him, and begins to torture him by dragging him through fire. He then uses the force to extinguish the flames as he plans to extend the pain Obi-wan suffers. Obi-wan's buddy then saves him by relighting the flames to create a barrier, allowing her droid to grab the Jedi. But... Literally less than a minute earlier, Vader put the same flames out. Just do it again. Instead Vader, for some reason, loses his vengeful bloodlust, and just watches a robot slowly take his nemesis from him, because...? I get that the point is he's meant to be actually conflicted about Obi-wan, but **** hell there's got to be a better way of showing it, it doesn't make any sense at all in that moment. And that **** 'chase' at the start... I don't really have a problem with the show itself, per se, Obi-wan is one of the characters you can give a story to that fills the gaps and basically changes nothing, but this, from a storytelling point of view, is terrible. I mean it's fun, but it's so stupid, beyond internal logic stupid, it's absurd. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 47 minutes ago, Chindie said: There's dozens of bits like this. The one that really stood out for me... Reveal hidden contents Episode 3, the Vader moment. Vader is portrayed as being obsessed with getting Obi-wan, his sole driving aim is finding him and punishing him. And eventually he catches him, and begins to torture him by dragging him through fire. He then uses the force to extinguish the flames as he plans to extend the pain Obi-wan suffers. Obi-wan's buddy then saves him by relighting the flames to create a barrier, allowing her droid to grab the Jedi. But... Literally less than a minute earlier, Vader put the same flames out. Just do it again. Instead Vader, for some reason, loses his vengeful bloodlust, and just watches a robot slowly take his nemesis from him, because...? I get that the point is he's meant to be actually conflicted about Obi-wan, but **** hell there's got to be a better way of showing it, it doesn't make any sense at all in that moment. And that **** 'chase' at the start... I don't really have a problem with the show itself, per se, Obi-wan is one of the characters you can give a story to that fills the gaps and basically changes nothing, but this, from a storytelling point of view, is terrible. I mean it's fun, but it's so stupid, beyond internal logic stupid, it's absurd. The thing is the balance now has long gone... Its star wars... That is what it is, bad, illogical, bizarre writing There is more bad SW than good, the last 2 things obi wan and boba have been 6/10 at best, the streak Disney is on at the moment is really poor 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: The thing is the balance now has long gone... Its star wars... That is what it is, bad, illogical, bizarre writing There is more bad SW than good, the last 2 things obi wan and boba have been 6/10 at best, the streak Disney is on at the moment is really poor Shame because I thought Rogue 1 was an excellent start 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, TheAuthority said: Shame because I thought Rogue 1 was an excellent start Definitely But now Disney will wrong that right with Andor More than anything I think Disney lack a big picture with SW, I saw articles this week that obi wan was originally a film trilogy... They don't know what they're doing And then at a more "local" level I don't think the show runners (if I understand that role right) are very good, they are capable of good episodes, they're very capable of great moments but stringing 6 episodes together cohesively in a well thought out series seems completely beyond them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 I enjoyed Obi Wan - but then I wasn't a star wars fan as a kid. Can't help but think this Disney idea of filling in the spaces around a grander story arc, is only going to satisfy for a short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted June 30, 2022 VT Supporter Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 hours ago, Jareth said: I enjoyed Obi Wan - but then I wasn't a star wars fan as a kid. Can't help but think this Disney idea of filling in the spaces around a grander story arc, is only going to satisfy for a short term. It's completely short sighted as there is such a huge universe covering eons that they could draw on. They might actually find even better characters than the originals if they went about it with some integrity. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 3, 2022 Share Posted July 3, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted July 5, 2022 Share Posted July 5, 2022 Disney have said Andor is being split in to 2 seasons of 12 episodes, 24 in total over the span of a year Testing my patience already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 i still dont trust the disney showrunners to put together a comprehensive season of a show but that looks really good to me 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuart_75 Posted August 2, 2022 Share Posted August 2, 2022 5 minutes ago, villa4europe said: i still dont trust the disney showrunners to put together a comprehensive season of a show but that looks really good to me Fingers crossed on this one. I will say the Kenobi trailer looked good and look how that turned out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts