The Careers/Jobs thread

[Davkaus]

Unless you have references other than your current employer, I'd tell them to jog on. I've never heard of a company trying that before, and they ought to realise it puts you in a poor position to let you current employer know you're looking, references should bea formality once the deal is all but done.

[Genie]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no

I’d say no, it’s a bit of a red flag about the employer isn’t it. 
It’s not normal and as you say, will sour the relationship with your current job if you don’t leave.

 

[villa4europe]

3 minutes ago, Genie said:

I’d say no, it’s a bit of a red flag about the employer isn’t it. 
It’s not normal and as you say, will sour the relationship with your current job if you don’t leave.

 

They're an international company with 120k employees and an annual turnover of €60bn so the new company must be doing something right... Can't work out if it's a weird international thing, they also asked me for my high school diploma which I think is an American thing and seeing as I'm applying for a senior role my GCSEs should be the least of their concerns 

Agree about the current employer, seems weird that I'd play my hand like that not get the job and just carry on like nothing happened, especially seeing as employment law here means my employer can give me 3 months notice and I'd lose my job 

[Tayls]

6 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no

Have they just requested details of your references so that they have them on record in case you are successful?

Or have they actually said they want to contact them beforehand? 

It’s not unusual to be asked to provide references prior to interview. What you could do is give the details of your referee at your current employers, but specifically say that the new company can only contact them upon you accepting an offer of employment. 
 

Edited February 25, 2022 by Tayls

[ferguson1]

It’s been a little tense in our household this week. Mrs F and I have both had the week off work but we’ve been bickering about our jobs.

After 26 years in the teaching profession as a primary school teacher, Mrs F is ready to quit. She’s had enough of the micromanagement and constant criticism. It’s not what she went into teaching for she says. She leads in certain subjects and is middle management (TLR) or something but she’s heavily stressed and wants out.

My concern is her wage is significantly better than mine and even if she does supply teaching from September, it’s a worry with bills increasing all the time and two young children.

Any current or previous teachers on here that are thinking of leaving or have left teaching completely? Supply teacher work seems very hit and miss, with no holiday or sick pay. I’ll accept whatever final decision she goes with but not working at all is just not an option for us. 

[jackbauer24]

4 hours ago, ferguson1 said:

It’s been a little tense in our household this week. Mrs F and I have both had the week off work but we’ve been bickering about our jobs.

After 26 years in the teaching profession as a primary school teacher, Mrs F is ready to quit. She’s had enough of the micromanagement and constant criticism. It’s not what she went into teaching for she says. She leads in certain subjects and is middle management (TLR) or something but she’s heavily stressed and wants out.

My concern is her wage is significantly better than mine and even if she does supply teaching from September, it’s a worry with bills increasing all the time and two young children.

Any current or previous teachers on here that are thinking of leaving or have left teaching completely? Supply teacher work seems very hit and miss, with no holiday or sick pay. I’ll accept whatever final decision she goes with but not working at all is just not an option for us. 

Whilst the financial debate is relevant to your personal circumstances, the career is clearly incredibly stressful and I would always argue a happy life is far more important than the money that is earnt. Obviously there is always a balancing act in that, as lack of money in itself can be stressful.

I am a teacher, in primary, and have been for a fair time myself (UPS2) but not 26 years! I have also had a long time on supply previously. So with there in mind, and recognising the myriad of differences each circumstance can bring, I'd say/suggest/ask a few things;

1. Is it the school? The environment from school to school is hugely different and one school will do something hugely different to another. One school made me practically suicidal with its culture of observation, criticism and pressure, another is the polar opposite. A new head can swing a school in either direction.

2. Is it the TLR that causes the stress more than the basic job? Could these be relinquished in either the current setting or in a new full time role? Dropping TLRs often isn't that great of a financial impact. SLT drops may be more significant.

3. Could she negotiate a Part Time role in her current setting? Going from 5 to 4 days equates to less than 20% drop in wage you'd expect. I have a Wednesday off and this helps manage my stress as there's only ever two days in a row. I use the Wednesday for my mental health at the Foundation.

4. The need for supply is currently massive BUT wages rarely match experienced staff's daily rate. A handful of agencies do offer guaranteed work for five days a week and pay regardless of whether they can find you work, but you have to accept all work offered. Holidays are accrued actually, but normally in the form of pay (if you get to that point, agency would explain clearly). Obviously no real sick pay. Biggest issue however is she would leave the pension scheme. Supply itself is stress free IF she's happy going in to new settings - no planning, parents, observations etc!

5. Is it worth having a period of sickness?! If she's properly stressed with it, then use the sick pay rights she will have accrued over the last 26 years. The break itself may help recharge the batteries, the length of service she has had will give her the maximum full sick pay I believe. Also, ultimately, she can use this to negotiate a better job on her return using occupational health.

I will reiterate, without consideration of circumstances, happiness trumps wages. This will be incredibly stressful for her too so be as supportive as you possibly can be, the last thing you need is to create resentment because you're forcing her to stay in an incredibly stressful career (if you know, you know) or feeling like she's letting you down by leaving. There are lots of ways to tighten the finances if needed, if you lose a few luxuries but gain a happier wife and mother then it's worth it. You will know her working week is probably in excess of 60hrs considering before/after school, weekend work, even work during the half term so she might suddenly be in all your lives much more. Good luck.

[bannedfromHandV]

11 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no

Is it an agency asking for them?

If so, they’re fishing for contacts to drum up more business.

[StewieGriffin]

11 hours ago, villa4europe said:

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no

I'm in almost the opposite situation to this - starting a new job on Tuesday, and my new employer hasnt asked for any references (although has seen my CV and knows which relevant companies I've worked for previously)

[bannedfromHandV]

7 minutes ago, StewieGriffin said:

I'm in almost the opposite situation to this - starting a new job on Tuesday, and my new employer hasnt asked for any references (although has seen my CV and knows which relevant companies I've worked for previously)

References aren’t worth the paper they’re written on any more to be honest, all they do is verify the dates of employment and the job title, nothing else should be requested nor offered.

[ferguson1]

8 hours ago, jackbauer24 said:

Whilst the financial debate is relevant to your personal circumstances, the career is clearly incredibly stressful and I would always argue a happy life is far more important than the money that is earnt. Obviously there is always a balancing act in that, as lack of money in itself can be stressful.

I am a teacher, in primary, and have been for a fair time myself (UPS2) but not 26 years! I have also had a long time on supply previously. So with there in mind, and recognising the myriad of differences each circumstance can bring, I'd say/suggest/ask a few things;

1. Is it the school? The environment from school to school is hugely different and one school will do something hugely different to another. One school made me practically suicidal with its culture of observation, criticism and pressure, another is the polar opposite. A new head can swing a school in either direction.

2. Is it the TLR that causes the stress more than the basic job? Could these be relinquished in either the current setting or in a new full time role? Dropping TLRs often isn't that great of a financial impact. SLT drops may be more significant.

3. Could she negotiate a Part Time role in her current setting? Going from 5 to 4 days equates to less than 20% drop in wage you'd expect. I have a Wednesday off and this helps manage my stress as there's only ever two days in a row. I use the Wednesday for my mental health at the Foundation.

4. The need for supply is currently massive BUT wages rarely match experienced staff's daily rate. A handful of agencies do offer guaranteed work for five days a week and pay regardless of whether they can find you work, but you have to accept all work offered. Holidays are accrued actually, but normally in the form of pay (if you get to that point, agency would explain clearly). Obviously no real sick pay. Biggest issue however is she would leave the pension scheme. Supply itself is stress free IF she's happy going in to new settings - no planning, parents, observations etc!

5. Is it worth having a period of sickness?! If she's properly stressed with it, then use the sick pay rights she will have accrued over the last 26 years. The break itself may help recharge the batteries, the length of service she has had will give her the maximum full sick pay I believe. Also, ultimately, she can use this to negotiate a better job on her return using occupational health.

I will reiterate, without consideration of circumstances, happiness trumps wages. This will be incredibly stressful for her too so be as supportive as you possibly can be, the last thing you need is to create resentment because you're forcing her to stay in an incredibly stressful career (if you know, you know) or feeling like she's letting you down by leaving. There are lots of ways to tighten the finances if needed, if you lose a few luxuries but gain a happier wife and mother then it's worth it. You will know her working week is probably in excess of 60hrs considering before/after school, weekend work, even work during the half term so she might suddenly be in all your lives much more. Good luck.

Firstly, many thanks for the detailed post and thought put into your response. It’s good to hear some reasoning from another teacher.

In answer and in short, it’s the head. My wife has worked in the same school for all her 26 years and worked her way up to gain TLR and UPS3. However, the new head of 4 years is very driven and has bought a lot of previous staff from her old school with her and continues to do so. My wife feels very isolated now. The head also expects blood and very long hours with it. Being in our middle to late forties now, she just doesn't want it.

Rightly or wrongly, she has been advised by the head that if she wants to drop her TLR/UPS3, then she needs to either leave the school or drop to some form of basic teacher/assistant rate because she needs a committed management team? The head also won’t allow her to go part-time because she needs full-time staff/management around her.

She is now considering sick leave or waiting until the summer and not returning in September. The plan would be to go on sick until early next year and then quit, and register with a supply agency.

Whatever happens, it’s only money and I’d rather have a happy home. Cheers again mate, much appreciated

 

 

[jackbauer24]

7 hours ago, ferguson1 said:

Firstly, many thanks for the detailed post and thought put into your response. It’s good to hear some reasoning from another teacher.

In answer and in short, it’s the head. My wife has worked in the same school for all her 26 years and worked her way up to gain TLR and UPS3. However, the new head of 4 years is very driven and has bought a lot of previous staff from her old school with her and continues to do so. My wife feels very isolated now. The head also expects blood and very long hours with it. Being in our middle to late forties now, she just doesn't want it.

Rightly or wrongly, she has been advised by the head that if she wants to drop her TLR/UPS3, then she needs to either leave the school or drop to some form of basic teacher/assistant rate because she needs a committed management team? The head also won’t allow her to go part-time because she needs full-time staff/management around her.

She is now considering sick leave or waiting until the summer and not returning in September. The plan would be to go on sick until early next year and then quit, and register with a supply agency.

Whatever happens, it’s only money and I’d rather have a happy home. Cheers again mate, much appreciated

 

 

No worries.

Well based on what you're saying, she should look for another job rather than think this is the profession. The Head shouldn't be able to make her feel she should bring a premature end to her career. Knowing you're applying for other jobs is very freeing as it gives a light at the end of the tunnel. Supply can also lead to those jobs and is why I'm back in a school despite vowing to never going back!

Good luck with it all!

[cheltenham_villa]

On 25/02/2022 at 12:22, villa4europe said:

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no

Yes quite normal I think. In most instances the reference aren't taken, it's just to make sure that any potential candidates have committed to providing some. The rising costs of recruitment have driven some of this behaviour.

It's fair to ask, it's not controversial but it's also fair for you to not give a current employer and also stipulate that you would like to be informed before references are taken.

[cheltenham_villa]

On 20/11/2021 at 15:27, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

From what I can tell, there's not a lot of difference when it comes to holiday/pension etc and with the main difference in benefits being greater WFH and flexability on hours with the new company plus they offer a 5% yearly bonus, something I don't get where I am now. I have been offered it now with a roughly 10% raise, just waiting to see what my boss gives me as a counter offer.

I do think my former boss is supportive of me, she even sent me a text telling me to walk away from it if the offer wasn't right for. She's also been a massive support since starting my current role and also personally as my brother died from Covid earlier this year at 34 which really helped during a difficult period.  Although, she isn't involved in the actually hiring process, but I have been offered a raise now.

Think this is it for me, I jus tdon't see the progression within my current company, at least not in to the field I want to be in, whereas the new company have a dedicated data analysis department which I want to eventually side step into. Though I'll have to wait until Monday to see how much my current place wants to keep me.

And yeah, I'm only 27 and only left Uni at 23, so it's my first real experience with moving companies that wasn't just telling Next I was leaving my part time job.

 

Also, I've not had the chance to go on VT all week, so I've not just ignored both of your posts 

As someone who's probably at a different career stage to yourself, I can offer two completely contradictory bits of advice. 

1. Never move jobs for money. You spend far too long at work and if you're not happy in the role then I'm not convinced an amount of money can make up for that.

2. Your 20s are the easiest time to move between roles and maximise worth. When you've got kids, mortgages, etc then you need to make different decision. Move frequently and often if it's right for you, of the CVS I see these days, it's not uncommon for people to move every 18 months and this is no longer the red flag it used to be.

Ive spent 20 in data science and analytics if you want to DM me I'm happy to try and help advise on how best to find a career in that field.

[Seat68]

About to go on a promotion calibration meeting to fight for promotion for 2 of my team. When I submitted it I was 100% certain that they deserved promotion. The last 6 weeks I have been working a lot closer to both of them and now appreciate they are lazy ****. It's not my money in the end but my fight for their promotion won't be as hard fought as it was going to be. 

[villan-scott]

I have been approached twice in the last week for 2 separate jobs at 2 competitors of ours, essentially to do the same role. One was offering a significant pay rise, circa 10-15k on the overall package uplift. However, they are in a bad place currently, all the noise is of upheaval, mortgage brokers who use them have nothing positive to say about them recently, and service levels have been consistently poor. Despite the potential for more money, I declined.

Then this evening, another contact for another role with another mortgage lender, who are very much up and coming, and doing some really good stuff. Their sales director recruited me into the role I am in now, and they are ‘copying’ to a degree what we have at the lender I am currently working for. They have already poached a number of staff from us, and I assumed they must be offering good money to do so. When I queried the package, it was less than what I am currently earning, so won’t pursue any further.

I am more than happy where I am, and have a great deal of respect and freedom in my role. I’m certainly not actively looking to move, and if I did I would be to step up a level, rather than a sideways move. I am very tempted to bring up the above in my end of year review in the next few weeks, as pay reviews also take place then, to see if I can squeeze a bit more on my basic.

Any one had any similar experience to leverage it to my benefit?

[Seat68]

I work for a consultancy and today is my last day with a large company that I have been with for little over 2 years. The last few weeks have been particularly tough as I have been handing over to people that have the knowledge retention of a goldfish. Today I head to the office essentially to hand my laptop in, but also have an interview on teams for my next role, which is a promotion and where I was hoping my career would be, a Test Manager. So fairly big day overall. 

[Seat68]

On 25/03/2022 at 05:49, Seat68 said:

I work for a consultancy and today is my last day with a large company that I have been with for little over 2 years. The last few weeks have been particularly tough as I have been handing over to people that have the knowledge retention of a goldfish. Today I head to the office essentially to hand my laptop in, but also have an interview on teams for my next role, which is a promotion and where I was hoping my career would be, a Test Manager. So fairly big day overall. 

Worth noting. I did get that role. I should start next week, that's reliant on them getting a laptop to me. 

[StefanAVFC]

2 hours ago, Seat68 said:

 that's reliant on them getting a laptop to me. 

That's the first test

[Beastmix]

I'm quite new to university lecturing and I find myself marking an essay about a book by a student who keeps getting the title of the book wrong... 

[sharkyvilla]

I've got a possible job lined up which I think would also interest one or two of my current colleagues.  There is a £1000 bonus for successfully referring somebody else and I was wondering what people would normally do, pocket the £1000 for yourself or split it 50/50 with the other guy?