The Careers/Jobs thread

[pas5898]

28 minutes ago, Genie said:

I think the first part of it depends on how long you’ve worked for them. I think if it’s less than 2 years they can bin you off quite easily.

2 years and 1 month. 

I have a 3 months notice period as well, so I presume that means I get at least 3 months salary as a "going away present".

 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, pas5898 said:

2 years and 1 month. 

I have a 3 months notice period as well, so I presume that means I get at least 3 months salary as a "going away present".

 

Great news that you’ve tipped the 2 years.

If they want to make you redundant it’s quite a lengthy process.

First of all they have to formally inform you that you’re at risk of redundancy. Then I think they have to offer you any other open vacancies that exist in the business as an alternative to making you redundant. If you reject all that then they’ll issue you the terms of redundancy and end date.

As you have 3 months they’ll either get the ball rolling on that and you’ll finish at the end, or they might finish you earlier but pay you for the remainder of the 3 months. 

[Big Salad]

Day 3 in the new job...and already have had to stop a couple of make out sessions at lunch time; wait till you leave school at least kids.

[ferguson1]

1 hour ago, pas5898 said:

Advice please.

Appears the company I work for (quite a large £1bn+ business), with thousands of employees are systematically moving as many admin, finance, IT and marketing functions abroad to the Middle East. I know that where I work (e-commerce and digital) is on the list.

How does this work from a redundancy perspective? As we NEED e-commerce and digital functions they can't say the role is redundant, they are purely just trying to find people to do the job cheaper. Do they need to mutually agree with me a payoff? Or can they just give me notice and off I pop to the job centre? 

Are you in a union at work? If so, best place to start.  If not, try obtaining some information from your HR dept and then perhaps consult citizens advice? I think there is also redundancy rights information on gov.uk.

[Xela]

2 hours ago, pas5898 said:

2 years and 1 month. 

I have a 3 months notice period as well, so I presume that means I get at least 3 months salary as a "going away present".

 

Your company may have a policy, which is better than the statutory one. A company your size will have an intranet site and it should be on there. 

For reference, at our place, the policy depends on when you joined. If it was ages ago, like me, you get 4 weeks per year served up to a max of 104 weeks. New starters in the last few years might get something less attractive. 

[Seat68]

1 hour ago, Big Salad said:

Day 3 in the new job...and already have had to stop a couple of make out sessions at lunch time; wait till you leave school at least kids.

Who amongst hasn't snogged the face off a girl both of us at 9 years old under coats at school. 

Said girl was murdered some 35 years later by my brother in law. That's a different story though. 

[foreveryoung]

2 hours ago, Seat68 said:

Who amongst hasn't snogged the face off a girl both of us at 9 years old under coats at school. 

Said girl was murdered some 35 years later by my brother in law. That's a different story though. 

I'll meet you in the general thread for more

[mikeyp102]

16 hours ago, pas5898 said:

Advice please.

Appears the company I work for (quite a large £1bn+ business), with thousands of employees are systematically moving as many admin, finance, IT and marketing functions abroad to the Middle East. I know that where I work (e-commerce and digital) is on the list.

How does this work from a redundancy perspective? As we NEED e-commerce and digital functions they can't say the role is redundant, they are purely just trying to find people to do the job cheaper. Do they need to mutually agree with me a payoff? Or can they just give me notice and off I pop to the job centre? 

As a big company they are likely to have a redundancy package. 
 

I had a similar situation about 15 yrs ago where they moved offshore for cheapness. I got a decent payout and advance notice 

[Genie]

My current job is really pissing me off.

About a year ago the project I was working on was canned so I ended up in a “any port in a storm” situation and was talked into doing a job I really wasn’t that keen on, but did my best and it has been interesting to learn a new part of the business.

When I arrived it’s just me and another guy and our manager (he had other people working for him but they did something completely different). Then this manger gets “displaced” and now we work for the senior manager instead. 

My colleague is more junior in grade than me so i’m kind of managing him, unofficially. This colleague has been constantly pissing in the SM’s ear that we need more resource to clear the backlog of “data” that needs to be addressed. I’ve never been on this page because of 1) we have access to resource already who could do it if 2) the data wasn’t so shit that it’s impossible to process effectively.

So the SM gets us some offshore resource for 6 months to help. I am told I need to manage him, make sure he’s trained and kept very busy. I’m not happy about this as I know it’s a waste.

As expected after a period of getting him up to speed he’s hitting the brick walls I knew he would. He keeps asking me every day “what he should do next?”. My colleague has his arse in his hands as I told him he needs to find him something as it was his idea but I guess it’ll come back to me as I was told to keep him busy.

Cancelling the guy (he’s employed full time elsewhere so wouldn’t be made redundant) isn’t going to be popular either as the SM had to fight hard to get it signed off.

Pisses me off as I knew exactly what would happen and it has. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Genie

[StefanAVFC]

I start my new job on Tuesday. System ownership; hoping for more of a macro view of the systems I'll own including budget responsibility.

[Stevo985]

On 01/04/2021 at 12:26, Stevo985 said:

I stood my ground on this one. Laid out what I wanted and my director (the one who wants me to go with him to do the job) has basically agreed I should be getting a raise to do the job, so he's going to have the conversation with the powers that be. No guarantee of anything yet but sounds positive!

 

On 01/04/2021 at 13:08, Stevo985 said:

Cheers mate!

Still might not happen. The business case is still up for approval and if it doesn't get approved then obviously there's no job. But sounds promising and it'll be an exciting role if it comes off. Quietly confident

This all fell through in the end. Business case was rejected so the job didn't exist.

 

However in the meantime I made some noise (professionally) within the department and this week I got promoted.

Now a head of department and a nice pay rise to go with it  

[Rds1983]

1 hour ago, Stevo985 said:

Now a head of department and a nice pay rise to go with it  

Congrats. 

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

I'm likely to get a job offer this week to move company (my old boss that basically created my current position for me and took me under her wing the past 18 months or so, recently left for this other company, encouraged me to apply there and has told me to expect good news this week following my interview a few weeks back) but as this current job is my first "real" job, I'm unsure how to handle it.

When I first started at the company I was in part time retail following Uni and was hired as a temp, then I got made permanent and then moved departments to my current role, so all offers I've had so far have been a fairly straight forward "yes, I'll take the job" answer, but now I feel I may have some leverage I could possibly use? The new role I applied for had about a 10% wage rise minimum for me (high end was a nearly 30% rise, but I'm unlikely to get that, otherwise this post would be irrelevant ), but my old boss did imply I might be offered a role one rung down, so it may not be much of a pay increase or even none at all (which wouldn't be great as I'm currently buying my first house and the new job would require longer commuting), but I feel the benefits of the new company would be much better for me from a personal point of view and career progression one too. 

So, assuming my old boss is right and I get an offer this week, how should I go about it? My plan is to thank them for the offer but tell them I need to think it over before saying anything definitive, then let my current boss know I've had an offer that I'm seriously considering in the hope that they may offer me something to stay, and potentially go back to the new company to ask if they'd match any offer I got to stay. I'd likely still leave if the new company can't match any improved offer as I can't see any real progression where I currently am, at least in the direction I want to go, but I would like to maximise what I can get if I can. Is this a sensible way to do it or is there a more tactful way to go? I know in these situations you have to look out for yourself as the companies won't give two shits about underpaying me, but I do feel like a bit of a dick if I don't upfront admit I want to leave and pretend I might stay just to maybe get more money. I also don't want to approach it in a way that may come across as arrogant and may backfire in the case the first offer is withdrawn, as if I think I'm so important to the team that they'd throw money at me to stay. Whilst I don't think of myself that highly, I work in a team of three including my boss, who was promoted internally to his position, so me leaving would mean all three members of the team would only have less than about 4 months experience in their roles which I imagine the company may want to avoid.

This is the first time I've potentially been put in this position, so I really don't know what would be the best way to handle it or even what would be the expected way to handle it, I'm really at a loss and these thoughts have been rattling around in my brain ever since my old boss first implied my interview went well and they were going to offer me something.

 

Or am I just waaaay overthinking all of this?

[Davkaus]

I would never move job without a payrise unless I was seriously unhappy in the current role and desperate to get out, which it sounds like you aren't. This is *the* time to negotiate pay, before you're trapped with nothing but cost of living rises unless you secure promotions. 

What are the benefits of the new company in terms of career progression, and how confident are you that they're a sure thing? If I were lowballed and offered a more junior job than the one I applied for, I'm not so sure I'd feel good about the likliehood of future oppurtunities being everything they claim. I'd also be incredibly reluctant to accept a longer commute with no enhanced pay.

How niche is the work you do? It seems like this is the choice of A or B, but really, it's the choice between A, B, and unexplored oppurtunities C that could be out there waiting for you. It really is an employee's market now, for the first time since the financial crisis, at least in my industry pay offers are having to go up to accomodate the fact that there's a skills shortage, and after 18 months of releative fear about moving jobs, people are moving en masse, so this is really a good time to secure payrises even without taking on more responsibility. 

At the end of the day, they've approached you and encouraged you to apply, to then expect you to follow them, assume the risk of quitting your current job, and they don't even want to bump your pay? I think that's taking the piss. I'd have a number on my head of how much I'd need to justify the extra commute plus a bit extra to justify the stress of a job move, and then stick a few percent on top

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

8 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

I would never move job without a payrise unless I was seriously unhappy in the current role and desperate to get out, which it sounds like you aren't. This is *the* time to negotiate pay, before you're trapped with nothing but cost of living rises unless you secure promotions. 

What are the benefits of the new company in terms of career progression, and how confident are you that they're a sure thing? If I were lowballed and offered a more junior job than the one I applied for, I'm not so sure I'd feel good about the likliehood of future oppurtunities being everything they claim. I'd also be incredibly reluctant to accept a longer commute with no enhanced pay.

How niche is the work you do? It seems like this is the choice of A or B, but really, it's the choice between A, B, and unexplored oppurtunities C that could be out there waiting for you. It really is an employee's market now, for the first time since the financial crisis, at least in my industry pay offers are having to go up to accomodate the fact that there's a skills shortage, and after 18 months of releative fear about moving jobs, people are moving en masse, so this is really a good time to secure payrises even without taking on more responsibility. 

At the end of the day, they've approached you and encouraged you to apply, to then expect you to follow them, assume the risk of quitting your current job, and they don't even want to bump your pay? I think that's taking the piss. I'd have a number on my head of how much I'd need to justify the extra commute plus a bit extra to justify the stress of a job move, and then stick a few percent on top

I don't feel my role is particularly niche, which plays in to some of my anxieties that people with my skillset are a pound a dozen right now. I'm a supply chain analyst in the food industry on the supplier side, and the new role would essentially be the same position, but from a retail point of view. Originally I trained to be a mechanical engineer, but realised when applying for stuff post-Uni that I kinda hated engineering and only did it because I was good at Maths, and I think that lack of enthusiasm basically tanked every interview I went for as it seemed I wasn't interested in the job (most of the time I wasn't), so I got a stop gap sales role where I currently am, and then a year or so later, I started essentially doing my current role before it was created and realised that I'd actually like to go down the route of Data Analysis with some of the foundations I got from my degree, which I have tried to push for with training internally and for other jobs elsewhere in Data Analysis, but not had much luck. The problem I have is that I'm only really experienced in Excel with some knowledge of R, so often fail on the hiring criteria of SQL, Tableau or PowerBI knowledge. I put forward training courses that I'd like to go on to get some experience of those softwares, but they were rejected and instead I was given project management courses which didn't really touch data all that much.

This is essentially where my frustration about my current company comes from. They're a fairly old, national company that is a bit stuck in it's ways, and even though they are still relatively successful operating that way, I just don't see any avenues for me to progress into Data Analysis within the company unless there is a sudden overhaul of how they approach things, and I feel like the longer I stay here without that further training, it's going to get harder for me to find somewhere willing to take me on and train me in that role, especially when most jobs I see that offer on the job training typically are on even lower salaries than my current one. Whereas the new company is a multinational company where I know there are roles for Data Analysis, so I feel that as long as I can get my foot in the door there, I can look to change departments once I'm in the company, which my interviewers did indicate would be a possibiltiy, and something which is often done, as well as telling me I could get the sort of training I would want to help me with that too, which shows me there's at least a path to where I want to go there unlike my current job. There's also lots of benefits around flexible working hours and WFH, which is much better than my current place.

In terms of the pay, I will say this may be a case of counting my chickens too early, as I haven't been formally offered anything yet, I only know I will be because of my former boss, so don't actually know what I'll be offered. I know what I'd have been offered on the original role I went for, which would've been a promotion closer to my bosses type of role, because my former boss told me the salary range before she left, but if it is the lower role which is equivalent to my current one, I don't know what they'd be looking at, it's more preparing myself for a scenario where it's not as much as I originally expected, I may even get the role I originally went for, I'm not sure yet. I would look to ensure I could at least get my commute covered, so I do know a figure I won't go below.

This whole thing is just so new to me and awkward, and whilst I know I should try to be ruthless with my decisions, it doesn't fit my personality at all.

[Xela]

1 hour ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

In terms of the pay, I will say this may be a case of counting my chickens too early, as I haven't been formally offered anything yet, I only know I will be because of my former boss, so don't actually know what I'll be offered. I know what I'd have been offered on the original role I went for, which would've been a promotion closer to my bosses type of role, because my former boss told me the salary range before she left, but if it is the lower role which is equivalent to my current one, I don't know what they'd be looking at, it's more preparing myself for a scenario where it's not as much as I originally expected, I may even get the role I originally went for, I'm not sure yet. I would look to ensure I could at least get my commute covered, so I do know a figure I won't go below.

I think you need to wait and see what the new co offers you first before running a thousand scenarios over in your mind. 

I wouldn't move for the same money unless there were huge other benefits (ie work from home permanently, far smaller commute if needed in office, etc)

Its not just salary you need to consider - what other benefits do your current employer and potential new employer offer? Whats the pension like? Holiday? Any SAYE schemes? 

[blandy]

4 hours ago, MessiWillSignForVilla said:

I'm likely to get a job offer this week to move company (my old boss that basically created my current position for me and took me under her wing the past 18 months or so, recently left for this other company, encouraged me to apply there and has told me to expect good news this week following my interview a few weeks back) but as this current job is my first "real" job, I'm unsure how to handle it....

Or am I just waaaay overthinking all of this?

It's about clarity of what you actually want, judged against what you've got and what you know, I think

So what you know is how you feel about your current job. You also know your short and mid term ambitions, broadly, I'd wager - like "I want to be doing this kind of work, be that management, or financial or product based or supply or...etc. and I want to manage people, or I want to have freedom to get on with the routine stuff, or I want to learn more about ....all those kinds of things (or different ones).

You also know your old boss must think highly of you. This is important - you worked/may be working again for someone who appreciates your efforts and character and work etc. That can go a long way, if they support your career, or it can mean nothing - will this person be supportive of you, do you think? do you get good vibes, and is there evidence of them actually making your pay or role better from the past?

If you're happy where you are and can see a path to progress, then the "new" job opportunity is a kind of free hit - a no lose gamble in terms of finding out more about a potential different path, you don't have to take it if you're happy already, you have the gift of being able to find out about the sort of terms and conditions they'd offer you, what the role would be and so on, before you make any decision.

If you're not happy where you are, or just plod along with no real kind of clear future in sight, then that suggests moving is an opportunity to make things change for the better.

The new company looks like they are showing you they actively want you. What does your current company do to show they appreciate you and want you to have a career there?

You're in a good position, even if it can be unsettling to have to make these choices (or not). I'm guessing you're still pretty young. Moving jobs to find what you really want to do is and can be a good thing - how else do you find out about the world of work? Work for good people and generally you'll end up alright. Where are the good people? Where are the one(s) who value you?

[MessiWillSignForVilla]

On 15/11/2021 at 17:31, Xela said:

I think you need to wait and see what the new co offers you first before running a thousand scenarios over in your mind. 

I wouldn't move for the same money unless there were huge other benefits (ie work from home permanently, far smaller commute if needed in office, etc)

Its not just salary you need to consider - what other benefits do your current employer and potential new employer offer? Whats the pension like? Holiday? Any SAYE schemes? 

From what I can tell, there's not a lot of difference when it comes to holiday/pension etc and with the main difference in benefits being greater WFH and flexability on hours with the new company plus they offer a 5% yearly bonus, something I don't get where I am now. I have been offered it now with a roughly 10% raise, just waiting to see what my boss gives me as a counter offer.

On 15/11/2021 at 18:55, blandy said:

It's about clarity of what you actually want, judged against what you've got and what you know, I think

So what you know is how you feel about your current job. You also know your short and mid term ambitions, broadly, I'd wager - like "I want to be doing this kind of work, be that management, or financial or product based or supply or...etc. and I want to manage people, or I want to have freedom to get on with the routine stuff, or I want to learn more about ....all those kinds of things (or different ones).

You also know your old boss must think highly of you. This is important - you worked/may be working again for someone who appreciates your efforts and character and work etc. That can go a long way, if they support your career, or it can mean nothing - will this person be supportive of you, do you think? do you get good vibes, and is there evidence of them actually making your pay or role better from the past?

I do think my former boss is supportive of me, she even sent me a text telling me to walk away from it if the offer wasn't right for. She's also been a massive support since starting my current role and also personally as my brother died from Covid earlier this year at 34 which really helped during a difficult period.  Although, she isn't involved in the actually hiring process, but I have been offered a raise now.

Quote

If you're happy where you are and can see a path to progress, then the "new" job opportunity is a kind of free hit - a no lose gamble in terms of finding out more about a potential different path, you don't have to take it if you're happy already, you have the gift of being able to find out about the sort of terms and conditions they'd offer you, what the role would be and so on, before you make any decision.

If you're not happy where you are, or just plod along with no real kind of clear future in sight, then that suggests moving is an opportunity to make things change for the better.

The new company looks like they are showing you they actively want you. What does your current company do to show they appreciate you and want you to have a career there?

You're in a good position, even if it can be unsettling to have to make these choices (or not). I'm guessing you're still pretty young. Moving jobs to find what you really want to do is and can be a good thing - how else do you find out about the world of work? Work for good people and generally you'll end up alright. Where are the good people? Where are the one(s) who value you?

Think this is it for me, I jus tdon't see the progression within my current company, at least not in to the field I want to be in, whereas the new company have a dedicated data analysis department which I want to eventually side step into. Though I'll have to wait until Monday to see how much my current place wants to keep me.

And yeah, I'm only 27 and only left Uni at 23, so it's my first real experience with moving companies that wasn't just telling Next I was leaving my part time job.

 

Also, I've not had the chance to go on VT all week, so I've not just ignored both of your posts 

Edited November 20, 2021 by MessiWillSignForVilla

[NoelVilla]

Im in a recruitment process currently. Not a management position and a role I have 15 years experience of doing. After an interview, a test and taking references they booked another meeting next week. I'm now at the point that I don't think I want to work for an organisation that can't make a decision and need a longer process.

[villa4europe]

Anyone ever been asked for references before an interview? 

I've had it requested and I've never seen it before, got a week to get them too which I've also never had before, mine have always been requests for the names and after a successful interview like it's the last step before being offered a job

Tempted to politely say no