André Green

[nick76]

9 minutes ago, trom_borg said:

A clear contradiction on its own.

Whether Green will ever be a Premier League footballer is of course very much up for discussion, but at the end of the day none of us know yet. And football is full of evidence that you can never be certain about anything, there is so much affecting players development and performances at various stages during their career. Now its totally fine to speculate and share opinions of course, thats what forums like this is for. And I very much agree its looking less likely now than it did 2 years ago. But the need for many on here to completely write him off at the current stage is simply baffling to me. 

but what is the alternative? it's not writing him off as a player generally but currently as a Villa player. 

With El Ghazi, Trez, Jota, RHM and even Kodja in that role then Green is well down the pecking order and that's no good to him.  He has talent but not what we need at the moment so we can send him out on loan and another year goes by or we can sell him. 

We could regret selling him like we did Cahill but there are ten's of players that we havent regretted selling.  We can only have a certain size squad and while we are splashing the cash at the moment, holding onto playing that is unlikely to play when we have a full compliment of players at the end of the transfer window it seems unfair to hold onto him.

We should sell with a buy back clause like what seems to be happening with Luiz.  Seems a good middle ground to me.

Edited July 25, 2019 by nick76

[MaVilla]

didnt realise Green's contract only runs until 2020.

I had though a loan to get a full season under his belt and develop, but hmmm..........only 12 months let on his contract.

wonder if there is a 1 yr option to extend.

[KenjiOgiwara]

14 minutes ago, trom_borg said:

A clear contradiction on its own.

Ofc. it's not. Whether people have gotten around to it or not, we have to think as a PL team, and he does not look like a PL level talent. Not even remotely. We can hope for a loan move where he develops massively to the point he becomes a PL level footballer, but personally I think that's highly unlikely, cause he simply doesn't seem to have the ability. In fact I'd be surprised if a championship team ended up playing him regularly. Most likely league one is his level, even if he didn't look like a wiz kid during his loan at pompey. 

[rodders0223]

21 minutes ago, MaVilla said:

didnt realise Green's contract only runs until 2020.

I had though a loan to get a full season under his belt and develop, but hmmm..........only 12 months let on his contract.

wonder if there is a 1 yr option to extend.

It seems to be a new policy not to give young players long cushy contracts. I agree with it.

[Fight Like Lions]

I think people forget how young he is as he seems to have been around the first team set up for quite a while. Turns 21 tomorrow. 

I don’t know whether he has the ability or not to really make it but I think it’s still too early to completely write him off. He needs to mature and find some confidence. I hope he gets a loan move to a decent championship side who can offer him regular games. His situation is very reminiscent of Callum Robinson at the moment.

[AV82]

I think we can all agree this guy needs a full injury-free season on loan in the Championship. Consistently starting 30-40 games would do him the world of good.

[lapal_fan]

He's 20, that's young. 

Recently, I've regretted letting Cahill go (the obvious one), Albrighton, Daniel Johnson (especially when we were in the Championship), Callum Robinson, Veretout, Gana, Enda Stevens etc etc.

We let go of players very easily, we always have,  who we could have used, and if not got a considerable amounts more for those players than we ended up doing - all through bad management. 

With Andre, I'd give him another 3 year contract, that costs us nothing (only increased wages), gives us assurance to get a better deal, gives us the option to loan him out to continue to develop and if at the end of 2 years he's 22 (nearly 23), which is still young, you give him another year and then accept a decent offer, should we decide he's really not improving.

He's had a bad injury and is looking in good shape.  Get his confidence up and I'm sure he'll be ok.  And if he isn't up to our standard, let's get good money for him, for a change. 

 

[villanmac]

36 minutes ago, AV82 said:

I think we can all agree this guy needs a full injury-free season on loan in the Championship. Consistently starting 30-40 games would do him the world of good.

Don't want to be harsh but if he's loaned to a Championship side I doubt he would get 30-40 games.

[AV82]

18 minutes ago, villanmac said:

Don't want to be harsh but if he's loaned to a Championship side I doubt he would get 30-40 games.

True, perhaps one of the recently promoted teams would take him and he'd be able to secure a starting position.

[trom_borg]

3 hours ago, nick76 said:

but what is the alternative? it's not writing him off as a player generally but currently as a Villa player. 

With El Ghazi, Trez, Jota, RHM and even Kodja in that role then Green is well down the pecking order and that's no good to him.  He has talent but not what we need at the moment so we can send him out on loan and another year goes by or we can sell him. 

We could regret selling him like we did Cahill but there are ten's of players that we havent regretted selling.  We can only have a certain size squad and while we are splashing the cash at the moment, holding onto playing that is unlikely to play when we have a full compliment of players at the end of the transfer window it seems unfair to hold onto him.

We should sell with a buy back clause like what seems to be happening with Luiz.  Seems a good middle ground to me.

Sensible post and not what I was aiming at mate. Though I'd not put RHM ahead of him at the winger depth chart based on twp pre-season games against lower league opposition. Anyway it's a big season for both of them and ideally they'll both get a decent run out on loan at a lower level. 

[trom_borg]

3 hours ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Ofc. it's not. Whether people have gotten around to it or not, we have to think as a PL team, and he does not look like a PL level talent. Not even remotely. We can hope for a loan move where he develops massively to the point he becomes a PL level footballer, but personally I think that's highly unlikely, cause he simply doesn't seem to have the ability. In fact I'd be surprised if a championship team ended up playing him regularly. Most likely league one is his level, even if he didn't look like a wiz kid during his loan at pompey. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. But I do find it a odd thing to say that a 20year old with 2 PL games and 37 championship games under his belt has no talent what so ever. Dont think many people would say that about him 2-3 years ago. Now based on current form and skill as well as the trendline on his development I very much agree that it seems more and more unlikely that his talent will transcend into a Premier League quality player. But I'd not write him off yet and I hope the club wont either. 

[KMitch]

Absolutely no idea why this kid gets so much hate from our fans.  He's still extremely young and has grown a lot already under Smith's coaching.  I was at work yesterday during the game, but followed the match thread before catching the replay last night.  From the comments in the match thread, I was expecting Green to have a complete howler and be tripping over his own feet every time the ball came near him.  In reality, I thought he had a solid game and was unlucky to not score that wondergoal.  People need to chill out...  He's only 20 and needs at least a full season of Championship starts under his belt, before we start writing him off.  

[TRO]

1 hour ago, KMitch said:

Absolutely no idea why this kid gets so much hate from our fans.  He's still extremely young and has grown a lot already under Smith's coaching.  I was at work yesterday during the game, but followed the match thread before catching the replay last night.  From the comments in the match thread, I was expecting Green to have a complete howler and be tripping over his own feet every time the ball came near him.  In reality, I thought he had a solid game and was unlucky to not score that wondergoal.  People need to chill out...  He's only 20 and needs at least a full season of Championship starts under his belt, before we start writing him off.  

Its not a case of writing him off.....Like you, I want him to succeed......but he has to deliver.

There are players like Andy Gray, Trevor Francis, Gary Shaw and Brian Little far younger than him.....tearing it up at sub 20 years old.

He has to make an impact of some sort, to convince folk he has a future with us.....its a cruel business, but sadly that applies to us all, the manager, coaches and Ceo's can get sacked waiting.

Edited July 25, 2019 by TRO

[KenjiOgiwara]

8 hours ago, villanmac said:

Don't want to be harsh but if he's loaned to a Championship side I doubt he would get 30-40 games.

I doubt he would get a loan to the championship in the first place. He's League One material 

[samjp26]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

Its not a case of writing him off.....Like you, I want him to succeed......but he has to deliver.

There are players like Andy Gray, Trevor Francis, Gary Shaw and Brian Little far younger than him.....tearing it up at sub 20 years old.

He has to make an impact of some sort, to convince folk he has a future with us.....its a cruel business, but sadly that applies to us all, the manager, coaches and Ceo's can get sacked waiting.

This is the thing, as I said in another thread I think RHM looked far better than Green last night, he just seems to lack something. I hope he does come good for us, but it's difficult to see being as he only has one year left on his deal and will have several players ahead of him in the pecking order this season. 

Needs to go out on loan again but not sure he'd get into many top Championship sides starting XIs if I'm honest.  

[lapal_fan]

13 hours ago, TRO said:

Its not a case of writing him off.....Like you, I want him to succeed......but he has to deliver.

There are players like Andy Gray, Trevor Francis, Gary Shaw and Brian Little far younger than him.....tearing it up at sub 20 years old.

He has to make an impact of some sort, to convince folk he has a future with us.....its a cruel business, but sadly that applies to us all, the manager, coaches and Ceo's can get sacked waiting.

CAN WE PLEASE STOP USING OTHER YOUNG (AMAZING) PLAYERS AS A BENCHMARK FOR EVERY OTHER PLAYER TO BE PITCHED AGAINST?

Some players blossom after 20. 

**** hell. 

Not everyone will have the talent Andy Gray or Trevor Francis had at 20 hardly anyone did. 

Gareth Barry was being booed every **** week from the ages of 22-24, look how his career panned out.  He was barely considered for England (regular) duties until he was 27ish. 

Pirlo was pretty shit until his mid-20s, he didn't turn out too badly!

He has to be making "some sort" of impact?  He did some absolutely wonderful crosses last year, which weren't converted - who's faults that?  His, or Tammy's or Hogans?  

He nearly scored a great goal against Walsall, he gave possession away about 3 times when he was heavily under pressure against them - so let's focus on that.

He's not amazing, no one here is saying he is, but for reasons I've outlined previously, we've got to give him more time.  20 is **** young! 

Can we stop giving up on players so early please?  It's annoying as fuuuuuuuuccckkkk.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, lapal_fan said:

CAN WE PLEASE STOP USING OTHER YOUNG (AMAZING) PLAYERS AS A BENCHMARK FOR EVERY OTHER PLAYER TO BE PITCHED AGAINST?

Some players blossom after 20. 

**** hell. 

Not everyone will have the talent Andy Gray or Trevor Francis had at 20 hardly anyone did. 

Gareth Barry was being booed every **** week from the ages of 22-24, look how his career panned out.  He was barely considered for England (regular) duties until he was 27ish. 

Pirlo was pretty shit until his mid-20s, he didn't turn out too badly!

He has to be making "some sort" of impact?  He did some absolutely wonderful crosses last year, which weren't converted - who's faults that?  His, or Tammy's or Hogans?  

He nearly scored a great goal against Walsall, he gave possession away about 3 times when he was heavily under pressure against them - so let's focus on that.

He's not amazing, no one here is saying he is, but for reasons I've outlined previously, we've got to give him more time.  20 is **** young! 

Can we stop giving up on players so early please?  It's annoying as fuuuuuuuuccckkkk.

No He wasn't....I remember his first game and he looked special then.....of course there are examples of late developers too i.e David Platt

No one is giving up on him just saying what we see....so you have a different opinion.....flashes of stuff and little cameo's will not secure your future in this league....We have gone up for a reason, its tougher and less forgiving company now.

I just picked out a few off the top of my head, there are loads more.......but unless you want to go back to the places we have just come from in the last 10-12 years, I suggest you raise the bar.

I would guess everyone wants Andre to succeed, but only he can do it....as we want Keinan and Callum to succeed too.

[lapal_fan]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

No He wasn't....I remember his first game and he looked special then.....of course there are examples of late developers too i.e David Platt

No one is giving up on him just saying what we see....so you have a different opinion.....flashes of stuff and little cameo's will not secure your future in this league....We have gone up for a reason, its tougher and less forgiving company now.

I just picked out a few off the top of my head, there are loads more.......but unless you want to go back to the places we have just come from in the last 10-12 years, I suggest you raise the bar.

I would guess everyone wants Andre to succeed, but only he can do it....as we want Keinan and Callum to succeed too.

Calling @Zatman.

Gareth Barry was definitely, for a period booed, quite obviously.  

I think it was around the time Portsmouth were after him.  

I sat in the Holte End with my brother, defending him against 10 or so people who were calling him shit and to **** off. 

It's a shame the old official message boards are long gone, because there were threads and threads about selling him for £4m or so.  I remember it very well, because even at the time he wasn't performing, I knew have **** stupid the people who wanted him gone were. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

The thing about late blooming players is that you can almost always tell they have something about them. Like Keinan Davis for instance, he has something about him he just needs to be more prolific. 

Green on the other hand doesn't have the x factor so to speak. He just seems to lack the over all ability. 

[lapal_fan]

1 minute ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

The thing about late blooming players is that you can almost always tell they have something about them. Like Keinan Davis for instance, he has something about him he just needs to be more prolific. 

Green on the other hand doesn't have the x factor so to speak. He just seems to lack the over all ability. 

Well as far as I can see, he does cross the ball ok, he's quick, he's quite powerful and he's terrible at nothing really.  Passing under pressure needs to be worked on, a bit more composure, be a bit more direct/aggressive (to use his pace) and shoot more in decent positions are the things I'd be looking to improve. 

I'm probably coming across as something like "green's number 1 fan" - I'm not, I know he needs to improve, but comparing him at 20, to some of the games greatest players and using it as a stick to bash him with is moronic, quite frankly.  Not every player will have an immediate impact on a team, you have to let them develop. 

What good would come of selling him now?  How much would we get?  Not much, because he's had a bad injury and he hasn't got much competitive game time.  If we sell him now, the only dis-service we're doing is to Aston Villa for not maximising whatever potential he has, and either playing him, or getting the best possible deal we can for him.  We need to offer him another contract to protect our investment, and either give him confidence he's going to get minutes this year, or tell him to go out on loan, do the best he possibly can and we'll reassess him next summer.