villabromsgrove Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 The "Green" debate is simple. Is he good enough to play for a current Premier team? The answer is a resounding no. We can argue about whether he will be good enough after a couple of loans, but on the evidence we have so far it appears he wont be equipped to play at the high level that the future "Villa plan" requires. Our subs must not weaken us this season, so that leaves Green out of the match day squad in my opinion. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pez1974 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 23 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: The "Green" debate is simple. Is he good enough to play for a current Premier team? The answer is a resounding no. We can argue about whether he will be good enough after a couple of loans, but on the evidence we have so far it appears he wont be equipped to play at the high level that the future "Villa plan" requires. Our subs must not weaken us this season, so that leaves Green out of the match day squad in my opinion. I don't think it is that simple. I agree he doesn't appear to be good enough for a current Premier League team - but from the snippets of pre-season we've seen so far, the standard of coaching in the club at present is on a different planet to anything I've seen in years. The style of play against Walsall looked amazing in parts. What impact has this had on Green? I also agree about the subs, but he has pace. If he can sort out other things (with coaching), he could be perfect on a bench of 7! Additionally, would he be better off going out on loan, getting games but being coached at a lower standard? (Personally, I think a loan would be perfect for O'Hare, but am much less convinced about Green). He has ability, and pace, which you can't coach. For the first time since Graham Taylor, I feel we have a manager and coaching team who know how to help him maximise his potential - and I trust them to do that correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 1 minute ago, Pez1974 said: I don't think it is that simple. I agree he doesn't appear to be good enough for a current Premier League team - but from the snippets of pre-season we've seen so far, the standard of coaching in the club at present is on a different planet to anything I've seen in years. The style of play against Walsall looked amazing in parts. What impact has this had on Green? I also agree about the subs, but he has pace. If he can sort out other things (with coaching), he could be perfect on a bench of 7! Additionally, would he be better off going out on loan, getting games but being coached at a lower standard? (Personally, I think a loan would be perfect for O'Hare, but am much less convinced about Green). He has ability, and pace, which you can't coach. For the first time since Graham Taylor, I feel we have a manager and coaching team who know how to help him maximise his potential - and I trust them to do that correctly. He has a major character flaw, he isn't brave enough. The pace that people keep mentioning is lacking when running for a contested ball because he doesn't relish face to face confrontations. The tackles he makes are mainly when he's running back after losing the ball, and they're from the side rather than head on. How many times can you remember him taking a player on and dribbling past them? I can't think of any because the moment he's closed down he turns and either lays the ball back or loses it. Occasionally if he's in space he does something decent, but his timidity in closely marked situations is frustrating. No player with "ability and pace" should lose the ball as easily as Green does. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 29 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: He has a major character flaw, he isn't brave enough. The pace that people keep mentioning is lacking when running for a contested ball because he doesn't relish face to face confrontations. The tackles he makes are mainly when he's running back after losing the ball, and they're from the side rather than head on. How many times can you remember him taking a player on and dribbling past them? I can't think of any because the moment he's closed down he turns and either lays the ball back or loses it. Occasionally if he's in space he does something decent, but his timidity in closely marked situations is frustrating. No player with "ability and pace" should lose the ball as easily as Green does. Bold bit is nonsense really, it's just a nothing, throw away comment. He actually presses pretty well. I remember him winning/intercepting a couple of times on Wednesday. How many times can I remember him taking a player on? Well against Walsall on Wednesday he jinked the ball past 2 players trying to tackle him and smashed a great effort off the bar, so again, you must have a bad memory because that was 2 nights ago. He needs to be more aggressive when he's dribbling. Too many times if a defender is standing him up, he'll play it back to the full back, so it slows our play down and is predicable (apart from when he dribbled past 2 players and smashed the bar). Now I'll wait for the "it's only Walsall" or "He didn't do it against X last season" comment, to which I'll reply, I dunno, I can't remember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 32 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Bold bit is nonsense really, it's just a nothing, throw away comment. He actually presses pretty well. I remember him winning/intercepting a couple of times on Wednesday. How many times can I remember him taking a player on? Well against Walsall on Wednesday he jinked the ball past 2 players trying to tackle him and smashed a great effort off the bar, so again, you must have a bad memory because that was 2 nights ago. He needs to be more aggressive when he's dribbling. Too many times if a defender is standing him up, he'll play it back to the full back, so it slows our play down and is predicable (apart from when he dribbled past 2 players and smashed the bar). Now I'll wait for the "it's only Walsall" or "He didn't do it against X last season" comment, to which I'll reply, I dunno, I can't remember. the fact is, right now he isnt good enough by a long stretch, i dont think thats even a debate, and if you are debating that you will be in the minority, i dont deny he looks like he has ability, there is something in there, but he really isnt showing it. Whether its a confidence thing or an ability thing, who knows, i do wonder if its a confidence thing? He would benefit from a full season on loan in the championship to gain some confidence and develop, because he isnt going to get a first team slot unless we get a few injuries, and he really needs to be playing more than that. All i would say is, the guy looks like he has ability but for whatever reason isnt showing it, hopefully a loan to a decent championship side where he's playing week in, week out, might help him get past whatever his blockers currently are. Personally i hope he does develop and succeed at Villa, but the fact is right now, he's a long way from being a name anyone would consider to be a first name on the team sheet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 37 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Bold bit is nonsense really, it's just a nothing, throw away comment. He actually presses pretty well. I remember him winning/intercepting a couple of times on Wednesday. How many times can I remember him taking a player on? Well against Walsall on Wednesday he jinked the ball past 2 players trying to tackle him and smashed a great effort off the bar, so again, you must have a bad memory because that was 2 nights ago. He needs to be more aggressive when he's dribbling. Too many times if a defender is standing him up, he'll play it back to the full back, so it slows our play down and is predicable (apart from when he dribbled past 2 players and smashed the bar). Now I'll wait for the "it's only Walsall" or "He didn't do it against X last season" comment, to which I'll reply, I dunno, I can't remember. I've wanted Green to turn into the real deal for some time but he's not got what it takes .... He's too timid! That's my opinion lapal, you're welcome to yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 3 minutes ago, MaVilla said: the fact is, right now he isnt good enough by a long stretch, i dont think thats even a debate, and if you are debating that you will be in the minority, i dont deny he looks like he has ability, there is something in there, but he really isnt showing it. Whether its a confidence thing or an ability thing, who knows, i do wonder if its a confidence thing? He would benefit from a full season on loan in the championship to gain some confidence and develop, because he isnt going to get a first team slot unless we get a few injuries, and he really needs to be playing more than that. All i would say is, the guy looks like he has ability but for whatever reason isnt showing it, hopefully a loan to a decent championship side where he's playing week in, week out, might help him get past whatever his blockers currently are. Personally i hope he does develop and succeed at Villa, but the fact is right now, he's a long way from being a name anyone would consider to be a first name on the team sheet. Yea I agree It's people comparing him to the greats of the game at the same age, or people saying "sell him" I'm replying. He shows glimpses of talent, but I'm arguing that he needs time to develop into a more rounded, more consistent, more threatening player. Don't sell him now, it'll be the worst deal for us, especially because he will, inevitably, get better. Don't slate him and call him shit, because he isn't, but he's not quite ready for first team football yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 30 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: Don't slate him and call him shit, because he isn't, but he's not quite ready for first team football yet. Hi, you must be new to VT. Welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 6 minutes ago, bobzy said: Hi, you must be new to VT. Welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenjiOgiwara Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 4 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Well as far as I can see, he does cross the ball ok, he's quick, he's quite powerful and he's terrible at nothing really. I honestly see it completely differently. He is awful at crossing. Absolutely awful. He can't go past a player, absolutely inept at it. Probably the worst winger I've seen in that respect. I think the only positive thing I can say is that he is quite athletic, but unfortunately that just makes the previous points even worse. He loses possession a lot I'd say and you could see how Targett was frustrated with him in one of the previous matches. He didn't know how to position himself cause he had no faith Green would be able to do the fundamental stuff right. Honestly hopes he comes around and proves me wrong, but I think he have to become drastically better footballer and that rarely happens to such a degree. At least we all can agree on that he needs a loan move where he plays a lot of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted July 26, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted July 26, 2019 he needs a loan for a season, playing regularly in the championship. then we'll know for sure. but personally at the age of 21, i think we'd have seen something already that suggests he'll be a premier league winger one day if that something was there...which i dont believe it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) Agree with Kenji that he is awful at crossing. In terms of good things he did the other day, there was obviously the skip past and hitting the crossbar, but he also came deep, cut inside and put a really good ball through into the box at one point. Can't remember who to unfortunately. I'm completely undecided whether or not I think he'll make it. Whenever I think it's too late, I see his age and remember how young he actually is. He's only turned 21 today. I think he has more than enough attributes to make it, but he doesn't play with any swagger at all. I agree with others that it seems to be a confidence thing. Whether or not playing a full season on loan would help this or not, only time will tell, but I do think it's too early to write him off completely even if we don't think he's ready for us now. An additional thought - although he clearly has never had the output (or consistent minutes tbf) of someone like Harry Wilson, Wilson only had 7 league 2 games for Crewe at around Green's age with no goals. His next season and a half of football came in the championship from just before he turned 21 and he improved immensely in this time frame. Edited July 26, 2019 by Sam-AVFC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villabromsgrove Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 13 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I honestly see it completely differently. He is awful at crossing. Absolutely awful. He can't go past a player, absolutely inept at it. Probably the worst winger I've seen in that respect. I think the only positive thing I can say is that he is quite athletic, but unfortunately that just makes the previous points even worse. He loses possession a lot I'd say and you could see how Targett was frustrated with him in one of the previous matches. He didn't know how to position himself cause he had no faith Green would be able to do the fundamental stuff right. Honestly hopes he comes around and proves me wrong, but I think he have to become drastically better footballer and that rarely happens to such a degree. At least we all can agree on that he needs a loan move where he plays a lot of football. I agree totally, which is why I wouldn't even want to see him come on as a sub. Any player in a Villa shirt this season has to be proficient in all the basics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killeen30 Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 Just now, tomav84 said: he needs a loan for a season, playing regularly in the championship. then we'll know for sure. but personally at the age of 21, i think we'd have seen something already that suggests he'll be a premier league winger one day if that something was there...which i dont believe it is Personally for me his window of 'making it for Villa' is getting smaller and smaller. He began to break through into the first team in our relegation season. He SHOULD have really kicked on during our time in the Champion but at times, and there were times for me, when it looked like he was kicking on he picked up injuries. The loan to Portsmouth was good for him, games and goals. I really think he will have a decent career somewhere. He has a talent of being in the right place at the right time in goal scoring positions too. In short I would love Green to make it here but it looks doubtful, especially with the signings we are making. I personally think that he has the ability, but he lacks the confidence and belief in himself! Go on and prove me wrong Andre! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 If he's still under the age that he doesn't need to be registered? then I'd keep him around as we will need a big squad. 25 players and guys like Kodija & Hogan, like most (all? Not sure on Luiz) of our new signings must be registered to play. Guys like O'Hare and Green if they are still young enough? can be used without taking up a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillanousOne Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 when he first began to cameo off the bench, he took players on and crossed and had some good shots, last year's closed season he looked good, but since then every time he has started he has looked progressively worse, even sub appearances he rarely adds anything. I think he has talent, but at the moment he comes across as timid and doesn't do enough and he certainly has had enough opportunities to impress and rarely has. Not writing him off either but he needs a championship loan to prove himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, VillanousOne said: Not writing him off either but he needs a championship loan to prove himself. I'm kinda more leaning towards keeping these guys here and having them work under our coaches and manager who likely are superior to the ones they'd be working under at any loan club. Think there is more chance of them developing here than out on loan, but obviously game time also develops a player. For once we actually have a good manager who likes to develop players. Would be a shame to send these guys out on loan when they might actually develop here. Edited July 26, 2019 by sne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skruff Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 He needs to play 90 minutes week in week out in a competitive league. Whether that is for a L1 or Championship team. Loan him out first half of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Yea I agree It's people comparing him to the greats of the game at the same age, or people saying "sell him" I'm replying. He shows glimpses of talent, but I'm arguing that he needs time to develop into a more rounded, more consistent, more threatening player. Don't sell him now, it'll be the worst deal for us, especially because he will, inevitably, get better. Don't slate him and call him shit, because he isn't, but he's not quite ready for first team football yet. Don't trade in hyperbole....No one is saying he is ****, certainly not me. who do you want me to compare him with....Nigel Callaghan? I'll give you a reality check......We have found it so difficult to get out of the championship with players like Jack ,John McGinn ,Robert Snodgrass and John Terry, just a few examples......Don't give me the amazing players bit as if they are one in a million, as much as I admire them....that's the standard we are now seeking.....wake up to the new challenge. We need players who can challenge and hurt opponents, not just "shadow box",in boxing terms. Edited July 26, 2019 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted July 26, 2019 Share Posted July 26, 2019 The only thing i have seen from him is that occasionally he can strike a ball well, Everything else however.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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