World Cup 2022: Qatar

[villa4europe]

21 minutes ago, bobzy said:

According to...?  Qatar?

No according to how the data is collated

London Olympics for example shows deaths from accidents on site probably recorded with the HSE, if a 62 year old Polish immigrant plasterer working on the project died from a heart attack at home one night the HSE don't record him as a work death

That graphic is recording deaths outside of the workplace for Qatar 

Its suggesting that in the construction phase of the Olympics which was probably around 4 to 6 years only 1 migrant worker died, that's probably not true

Like I said it's not apples and apples

That's not defending Qatar, its just
a bad representation of stats

Edit -  I also think it would have been interesting if they had used comparable mega projects in the middle east not just global sporting events, wheres the stats for say the burj Khalifa or the abraj Al bait

Edited November 23, 2022 by villa4europe

[sidcow]

18 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Huh?

For the billionth time.

It is ILLEGAL for companies to take a passport. That law was changed YEARS AGO.

As for " 6 days per week ". I used to work 6 days per week when I was an employee here myself .

I'm " lying about healthcare ".... You've got to be f*ckng kidding me .

EVERY single expatriate worker In the country is a part of the same mandatory health care system unless you choose to or can afford private.

I only mentioned white collar workers as an example of expatiates.

Again, you're trying to tell someone who has lived in the country and knows the system from both sides of the fence this ffs 

How can I lie about factual things.

No one is saying there aren't still flaws, or bad eggs ( like with everywhere in the world)

If employers neglect to follow laws they can be reported.

You lot are so desperate for all the horror stories to be true that even when presented with facts you're still in denial.

FYI, some of these workers are brought here by " agents " from their own countries and scammed.

* I deal with lots of migrant workers myself!

I think we need a codeword.  If they are standing over you just slip the word "buttons" into any VT post and we will send in a rescue party.

[HKP90]

12 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

No according to how the data is collated

London Olympics for example shows deaths from accidents on site probably recorded with the HSE, if a 62 year old Polish immigrant plasterer working on the project died from a heart attack at home one night the HSE don't record him as a work death

That graphic is recording deaths outside of the workplace for Qatar 

Its suggesting that in the construction phase of the Olympics which was probably around 4 to 6 years only 1 migrant worker died, that's probably not true

Like I said it's not apples and apples

That's not defending Qatar, its just
a bad representation of stats

Edit -  I also think it would have been interesting if they had used comparable mega projects in the middle east not just global sporting events, wheres the stats for say the burj Khalifa or the abraj Al bait

I crashed my car on the way to working on London 2012. I nearly ended up as a statistic on VT. 

[villa4europe]

1 minute ago, HKP90 said:

I crashed my car on the way to working on London 2012. I nearly ended up as a statistic on VT. 

But not according to that graphic

[HKP90]

1 minute ago, villa4europe said:

But not according to that graphic

Maybe just a head or leg, rather than a whole graphic person.  

[tomav84]

Quote

Denmark have revealed they are ready to discuss a blanket withdrawal from FIFA alongside other UEFA nations amid the ongoing row over the #OneLove armbands.

On Monday, seven European sides planning to wear the anti-discrimination armbands to protest against Qatar’s human rights record all backed down from the plan after being threatened with sporting sanctions by FIFA.

Speaking at a press conference on Wednesday morning, Danish FA (DBU) CEO Jakob Jensen revealed that a yellow card was the “minimum” punishment that captain Simon Kjaer would have faced.

“On November 21, England asked for an emergency meeting with FIFA, who came to the English hotel,” Jensen revealed. “FIFA said it would at least give a yellow card.

“There has been discussion about whether there is a legal basis for giving a yellow card, but there is. The penalty could have been a yellow card, that the captain had not come on the pitch or that he was given a ban.”

The DBU delegation revealed the “anger” this has caused, and stated they would not formally support current president Gianni Infantino in his reelection bid. Infantino is standing unopposed.

“There are presidential elections in FIFA. There are 211 countries in FIFA and I understand that the current president has statements of support from 207 countries,” said DBU chairman Jesper Moller. “Denmark is not among those countries. And we’re not going to be either.”

Moller also revealed that Denmark were considering leaving FIFA, and were willing to discuss this with all 55 member states of the organisation.

“It is not a decision that has been made now. We have been clear about this for a long time. We have been discussing it in the Nordic region since August,” he said.

“I’ve thought it again. I imagine that there may be challenges if Denmark leaves on its own. But let us see if we cannot have a dialogue on things.

“I have to think about the question of how to restore confidence in FIFA. We must evaluate what has happened, and then we must create a strategy – also with our Nordic colleagues.”

Denmark drew their opening game 0-0 against Tunisia on Tuesday. They play France on Saturday afternoon in their next match. 

https://theathletic.com/3926702/2022/11/23/denmark-uefa-fifa-withdraw/?redirected=1

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

https://theathletic.com/3926702/2022/11/23/denmark-uefa-fifa-withdraw/?redirected=1

If Denmark leaves FIFA, then they also leave UEFA.  Which means no European football for their club teams, would be a huge blow financially for a lot of them.

[The_Steve]

Qatari TV censored the German protest 

 

 

[Stevo985]

Atmosphere at most of these games has been absolute shit

[magnkarl]

1 hour ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Huh?

For the billionth time.

It is ILLEGAL for companies to take a passport. That law was changed YEARS AGO.

As for " 6 days per week ". I used to work 6 days per week when I was an employee here myself .

I'm " lying about healthcare ".... You've got to be f*ckng kidding me .

EVERY single expatriate worker In the country is a part of the same mandatory health care system unless you choose to or can afford private.

I only mentioned white collar workers as an example of expatiates.

Again, you're trying to tell someone who has lived in the country and knows the system from both sides of the fence this ffs 

How can I lie about factual things.

No one is saying there aren't still flaws, or bad eggs ( like with everywhere in the world)

If employers neglect to follow laws they can be reported.

You lot are so desperate for all the horror stories to be true that even when presented with facts you're still in denial.

FYI, some of these workers are brought here by " agents " from their own countries and scammed.

* I deal with lots of migrant workers myself!

So, let's see. It's like with the alcohol. In order to understand the health system and why 56% of the low paid slave labourers don't have health care you need to know where to look.

At this point I don't think anyone but Qatar and some very gullible expats believe the parody that they're saying. If 56% out of their several 100.000 strong low paid work force don't have access to health care it's not free and universal, like you wrote. It's again just a front they're trying to sell to people who have valid concerns about their allocation of this tournament.

The most valuable thing that I think needs to be discussed is this constant 'there's laws against it!'-parrotting, but then there's very little being done to enforce said laws. The laws aren't worth jack unless the government actually enforces them, and as we see with the health care it's just another front.

Edited November 23, 2022 by magnkarl

[magnkarl]

17 minutes ago, duke313 said:

If Denmark leaves FIFA, then they also leave UEFA.  Which means no European football for their club teams, would be a huge blow financially for a lot of them.

The thing is that it won't be just Denmark, it'll be Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Germany, England and all the other teams that have worn the armband. UEFA can be salvaged and changed, FIFA can't. Meanwhile a major part of FIFA's money come from Europe and democratic nations. Unless Infantino and the pro-totalitarian gang wakes up and smells the coffee he won't have much income anymore. The sponsors pay for the wealthy audiences in the West, not the poor dude from China with no spending power.

Edited November 23, 2022 by magnkarl

[duke313]

2 minutes ago, magnkarl said:

The thing is that it won't be just Denmark, it'll be Finland, Norway, Sweden, Netherlands, Germany, England and all the other teams that have worn the armband. UEFA can be salvaged and changed, FIFA can't.

I doubt the English FA will leave.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

58 minutes ago, HKP90 said:

I don't think he's saying that it's that binary, and whilst I don't think based on reports that I've seen that it is in any way a positive regime, I do think you are being a little bit dismissive given that he actually lives there. 

Yeah I've got my own problems and criticisms of the regime and country myself mate.

I'm not hypocritical about those.

However I feel there are definitely some things I'm qualified to speak about and debunk FACTUALLY.

I know it's a sensitive and emotional topic for people as well so I'm no no way trying to come off as if I'm some sort of elite charlatan.

As noted as well, I deal with alot of migrant workers myself. Always have.

I'm not one of those who actually got any sort of silver spoon treatment here or come over as some sort of expat with a great job etc.

My story is quite unique but that's something I'll go into another time.

My Mom and myself have kind of come from the bottom up ourselves here!

 

Edited November 23, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[sne]

Doubt Sweden would (leave FIFA) either, not with the current guys leading the FA. 

Shame that UEFA is owned and ran by the Qatari PSG owner because if not maybe UEFA could have created something of their own.

Edited November 23, 2022 by sne

[The Fun Factory]

I would be amazed if Denmark withdrew. At the end of the day despite all of the wishy washy liberal views, money talks.

[HKP90]

Just now, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Yeah I've got my own problems and criticisms of the regime and country myself mate.

I'm not hypocritical about those.

However I feel there are definitely some things I'm qualified to speak about and debunk FACTUALLY.

I know it's a sensitive and emotional topic for people as well so I'm no no way trying to come off as if I'm some sort of elite charlatan.

As noted as well, I deal with alot of migrant workers myself. Always have.

I'm not one of those who actually got any sort of silver spoon treatment here or come over as some sort of expat with a good job etc.

My Mom and myself have kind of come from the bottom up ourselves!

 

I have some experience of similar issues in Singapore and Vietnam, both of which I have been fortunate to spend some time in. Both have significant social and political issues, however I was surprised by how different the experience of living in those places was to the perceived (often justifiable) concerns of external commentators. Singapore is a prime example. Everyone is aware of the political restrictions in place in SP, the use of the death penalty (which I'm EXTREMELY opposed to), and of the often ludicrous strictness of fines. No-one, however, before I went, or while I was there seemed to want to discuss the education system (free up to and including University level), excellent infrastructure, unparalleled personal safety, and the way that racial integration had been handled extremely well. 

I'm not denigrating the arguments against, which are true and compelling, but I'm just saying that things are not always as simple or as polarised as we would perhaps like to think. 

[StefanAVFC]

 

[magnkarl]

8 minutes ago, sne said:

Doubt Sweden would (leave FIFA) either, not with the current guys leading the FA. 

Shame that UEFA is owned and ran by the Qatari PSG owner because if not maybe UEFA could have created something of their own.

I guess Denmark's point here is to scare FIFA, Norway would for sure join, with the popular vote just barely coming on the side of competing in the world cup if they got there. It'd also give other nations an example to follow and likely scare FIFA to the point where they'd have to do something. 

[Delphinho123]

6 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

I would be amazed if Denmark withdrew. At the end of the day despite all of the wishy washy liberal views, money talks.

Agreed that money talks, but I'm not sure that opposing modern slavery, equal rights for men and women and equal rights for the LGBTQ community are 'wishy washy liberal views'.
I wouldn't class myself as a 'liberal' and I sure as hell think this whole WC has been a completely distasteful, unmitigated disaster. 

[Delphinho123]

1 minute ago, magnkarl said:

I guess Denmark's point here is to scare FIFA, Norway would for sure join, with the popular vote just barely coming on the side of competing in the world cup if they got there. It'd also give other nations an example to follow and likely scare FIFA to the point where they'd have to do something. 

The most depressing part of it all is Saudi Arabia will win their bid in 2030.