Drugs

[Rugeley Villa]

16 hours ago, Xann said:

Rehab?

Trendy bastard.

Next you'll be into ayurvedic veganism and colonic irrigation.

I'll never be as trendy as you and your obscure music 

[NurembergVillan]

Good luck Ruge.

I've got a couple of people really close to me now (well, one of them isn't as close as they were..) who have got big issues with coke.  One has acknowledged it and is taking steps to get things improved, whilst the other is blindly strolling into a deeper and deeper mess.

I feel fortunate that I've never been addicted to anything worse than Football Manager, as I acknowledge that it's not just case of thinking "yeah, I'll just stop".  I've been pretty open on here about my own mental health issues though, and so I know that being desperate for an apparent escape route is often not far away.

The big opportunity you have here is made bigger by the fact that it's "only" coke.  It's not heroin, so it hasn't got a physical hold on you.  It's just getting your responses straight so "action X does not = sniff some charlie", whereas it seems like right now that's a default behaviour.  I know it is for the folks I mentioned before.

Anyway, this ramble is meant as part understanding, part encouragement, and a big chunk of unconditional VT support.

Go on son! X

[Xann]

16 minutes ago, Rugeley Villa said:

I'll never be as trendy as you and your obscure music 

It's tough being this trendy

[Rugeley Villa]

6 minutes ago, Xann said:

It's tough being this trendy

Don't know about the music, but wouldn't mind spending a few nights there. 

[choffer]

1 minute ago, Rugeley Villa said:

Don't know about the music, but wouldn't mind spending a few nights there. 

Ruge, that white stuff is snow.

[mjmooney]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

It's tough being this trendy

I can never quite work out your love of all this 60s MOR cheese, whether it's 'ironic', or something. 

[chrisp65]

4 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I can never quite work out your love of all this 60s MOR cheese, whether it's 'ironic', or something. 

I think it's real.

I bought some, posted it up either here or somewhere and he told me it was shite!

And it was.

[Xann]

33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I think it's real.

I bought some, posted it up either here or somewhere and he told me it was shite!

And it was.

Ha Ha Ha

I used to work in the World's biggest record shop, in the specialist section.

Started in Classical, finished in Jazz. The middle mostly being dominated by Easy Listening.

Easy factoid - The trademark Easy sound of Mantovani and then Manuel (Real name Geoff Love, from Todmorden in Yorks), was a technique called cascading strings which was invented by Brit Ronald Binge. Binge wrote a couple of the most iconic British tunes ever, most will have heard 'Elizabethan Serenade' without knowing what it was, but 'Sailing By' is the real biggy.

Basically this stuff is an extension of British Light Music with added valium (diazepam since it's the drugs thread)

[mjmooney]

16 minutes ago, Xann said:

Ha Ha Ha

I used to work in the World's biggest record shop, in the specialist section.

Started in Classical, finished in Jazz. The middle mostly being dominated by Easy Listening.

Easy factoid - The trademark Easy sound of Mantovani and then Manuel (Real name Geoff Love, from Todmorden in Yorks), was a technique called cascading strings which was invented by Brit Ronald Binge. Binge wrote a couple of the most iconic British tunes ever, most will have heard 'Elizabethan Serenade' without knowing what it was, but 'Sailing By' is the real biggy.

Basically this stuff is an extension of British Light Music with added valium (diazepam since it's the drugs thread)

Quite. See, occasionally - maybe once a year - I can listen to a bit of BLM. Ronald Binge, Eric Coates, Ketelby, etc. Specifically because I can just about remember the pre-Beatles 1950s, and my (very elderly) parents would play that stuff on the BBC Light Programme (precursor to Radio 2). So it's a nostalgia thing. But by the time the Geoff Loves and Mantovanis hit their stride, I'd learned to despise it. That iteration would still make me grab for the 'off' switch. I'd make an exception for a few radio and TV theme tunes, as they trigger happier memories. But generally, it's dire. 

[Genie]

Interesting programme on now, Gordon Ramsey on Cocaine. He lost a friend/staff member to some bad coke.

He was just out with the police and the nicked 2 men high on cocaine doing the school run. One of the guys had only a provisional license, he was banned and of course no insurance but had his 2 sons in the car. 

[lapal_fan]

11 hours ago, Genie said:

Interesting programme on now, Gordon Ramsey on Cocaine. He lost a friend/staff member to some bad coke.

He was just out with the police and the nicked 2 men high on cocaine doing the school run. One of the guys had only a provisional license, he was banned and of course no insurance but had his 2 sons in the car. 

Yea I actually watched it (who watches normal TV anymore?!) because of this thread.  On both of those occasions it was quite shocking how 1, they both lied about if they'd taken anything/when the last time they did it (when they can be tested there and then) and 2, how blasé they were about getting their kids in the car whilst high. 

Yes, it was a bit "scaremongering", but when you look at the whole picture (making it, the crime affiliated with it, the bad stories etc) - It's not a great thing is it?  

The money in those two Albianian lads was pretty scary! £135,000 in two gift bags lol. 

[Genie]

1 minute ago, lapal_fan said:

Yea I actually watched it (who watches normal TV anymore?!) because of this thread.  On both of those occasions it was quite shocking how 1, they both lied about if they'd taken anything/when the last time they did it (when they can be tested there and then) and 2, how blasé they were about getting their kids in the car whilst high. 

Yes, it was a bit "scaremongering", but when you look at the whole picture (making it, the crime affiliated with it, the bad stories etc) - It's not a great thing is it?  

The money in those two Albianian lads was pretty scary! £135,000 in two gift bags lol. 

It was a real eye opener, the police nicked those 2 cars within an hour just on the strength of their driving being a bit suspicious, makes you wonder how many others there are.

I was amazed at the production process of the cocaine too, adding cement powder, gasoline and battery acid amongst other things. It’s no surprise it kills people (like Gordon Ramsey’s head chef) when there’s a bad batch.

Theres at least another part next week, I’d recommend watching it to others in this thread. 

[Xann]

If you could take a sample of all the coke sold in the UK in any one day, the average percentage of pure product would be well under 50%,

The polite cutting agent is glucose, but it's also common to get cheaper drugs mixed in. This can go either way. Most wouldn't notice a bit of clean speed in the mix, but then there's ket and various chemical cousins of the known drugs. 2C-B and Spice are fairly well known, but there's more being invented all the time.

I'm sure most folks wouldn't want to mix in circles that get 80% plus pure coke and with good reason. They're likely hard core crims or perhaps royalty?

 

[AVFCDAN]

1 hour ago, Xann said:

The polite cutting agent is glucose, but it's also common to get cheaper drugs mixed in. This can go either way. Most wouldn't notice a bit of clean speed in the mix, but then there's ket and various chemical cousins of the known drugs. 2C-B and Spice are fairly well known, but there's more being invented all the time.

Remind me again why its a good idea that taking coke is a criminal activity and not a decision that a consenting adult should be able to make without being criminalised?

The Gordon Ramsey doc was entertaining but the old school mentality of drug = bad and user = criminal (driving with kids in the car aside) was quite surprising really. 

Society deserves better than that, we're not going to move forward until it changes.

[BOF]

1 minute ago, AVFCDAN said:

Remind me again why its a good idea that taking coke is a criminal activity and not a decision that a consenting adult should be able to make without being criminalised?

The Gordon Ramsey doc was entertaining but the old school mentality of drug = bad and user = criminal (driving with kids in the car aside) was quite surprising really.

Broadly speaking, I think it's a generational thing.  Obviously there are exceptions on both sides in every generation, but I think we're a little more enlightened nowadays and attitudes are changing, both in terms of the taking and of how to treat those who use i.e. cure rather than punish.  We're not there yet, but we're closer than we were.

[AVFCDAN]

12 minutes ago, BOF said:

Broadly speaking, I think it's a generational thing.  Obviously there are exceptions on both sides in every generation, but I think we're a little more enlightened nowadays and attitudes are changing, both in terms of the taking and of how to treat those who use i.e. cure rather than punish.  We're not there yet, but we're closer than we were.

I agree in some aspects but in others we couldn't be further away, have you seen whats happening in Thailand at the minute? The bloke in charge is actively executing dealers and users with vigilante gangs at the moment a "hardline" stance on drugs. Good luck with that mate, lets see where that gets us 20 years down the line.

[HanoiVillan]

28 minutes ago, AVFCDAN said:

I agree in some aspects but in others we couldn't be further away, have you seen whats happening in Thailand at the minute? The bloke in charge is actively executing dealers and users with vigilante gangs at the moment a "hardline" stance on drugs. Good luck with that mate, lets see where that gets us 20 years down the line.

Agree completely with the sentiment, and well done for mentioning it and not letting it disappear into the background, but it's the Philippines. 

[BOF]

1 hour ago, AVFCDAN said:

I agree in some aspects but in others we couldn't be further away, have you seen whats happening in Thailand at the minute? The bloke in charge is actively executing dealers and users with vigilante gangs at the moment a "hardline" stance on drugs. Good luck with that mate, lets see where that gets us 20 years down the line.

Yeah I did mean we in the more progressive areas.  He's a nutjob using the guise of a moral high ground to satiate a bloodlust.  Some parts of the world still go down the 'ignorance and zero tolerance is best' route when it coes to dealing with drugs.

[chrisp65]

Trouble is, I guess, we're crap at being responsible.

If people had a little toot on pay day then went back to being worker drones on Monday, it's not an issue. But a significant portion of people aren't wired up like that. The drain on productivity and the strain on public services now is like nothing, compared with if we fully legalised all drugs at zero tax. If we go a portion down that road and legalise some drugs in some quantities with some tax, guess what, we still have the black market and gangs. Vodka is legal, but there are still piss heads, there are still deaths, drunk drivers and terrible parents inflicting misery on families and there is still illegal black market vodka. That's not going to be different for cocaine is it? 

I'm not suggesting the current system works or is 'fair'. But what serious alternative is there? Limited access to limited stuff doesn't take away the gangsters and the abuse. Full access to anything and everything without control gives us more bodies in the street.

You license a meth lab and get Environmental Health to make sure the vietnamese boys working there have regular comfort breaks and access to hand sanitizer, an illegal one will set up and undercut their prices. You say, ok we'll allow opium but not ket, guess what, some people just want ket and they'll get it. You allow people drugs at special venues, guess what, you'll sign the petition saying 'not in my street'.

It's a tricky one and I'm not advocating any particular status here. I'm just kinda trying to even up the debate with some consequences.

I couldn't care less if people want to stick aerosol cheese up their arse, or whatever this week's thing is. As long as I don't have to skip through their shit and vomit to get my kids to an under resourced school.

 

 

[mjmooney]

5 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Trouble is, I guess, we're crap at being responsible.

If people had a little toot on pay day then went back to being worker drones on Monday, it's not an issue. But a significant portion of people aren't wired up like that. The drain on productivity and the strain on public services now is like nothing, compared with if we fully legalised all drugs at zero tax. If we go a portion down that road and legalise some drugs in some quantities with some tax, guess what, we still have the black market and gangs. Vodka is legal, but there are still piss heads, there are still deaths, drunk drivers and terrible parents inflicting misery on families and there is still illegal black market vodka. That's not going to be different for cocaine is it? 

I'm not suggesting the current system works or is 'fair'. But what serious alternative is there? Limited access to limited stuff doesn't take away the gangsters and the abuse. Full access to anything and everything without control gives us more bodies in the street.

You license a meth lab and get Environmental Health to make sure the vietnamese boys working there have regular comfort breaks and access to hand sanitizer, an illegal one will set up and undercut their prices. You say, ok we'll allow opium but not ket, guess what, some people just want ket and they'll get it. You allow people drugs at special venues, guess what, you'll sign the petition saying 'not in my street'.

It's a tricky one and I'm not advocating any particular status here. I'm just kinda trying to even up the debate with some consequences.

I couldn't care less if people want to stick aerosol cheese up their arse, or whatever this week's thing is. As long as I don't have to skip through their shit and vomit to get my kids to an under resourced school.

 

 

Spot-on. I was thinking of posting something similar, but you saved me the trouble, thank you.