Drugs

[chrisp65]

Yes, I can see it now, regulated and quality inspected drugs that pay the correct level of tax. All available at all hours, at reasonable prices, in some of the less celebrated areas of towns.

That'll cause the illegal trade to melt away.

Once I can go to my local Spar and get what I want, when I want, at the price I'm used to paying, those gangs and their dodgy product will have no place and everything will improve.

That'll be a pint of milk, some special K and some special K please love. I've brought my own reusable bag.

[mjmooney]

41 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, I can see it now, regulated and quality inspected drugs that pay the correct level of tax. All available at all hours, at reasonable prices, in some of the less celebrated areas of towns.

That'll cause the illegal trade to melt away.

Once I can go to my local Spar and get what I want, when I want, at the price I'm used to paying, those gangs and their dodgy product will have no place and everything will improve.

That'll be a pint of milk, some special K and some special K please love. I've brought my own reusable bag.

Many years ago (80s?) there was a really good TV programme put together by the late Adam Faith (yes, that one, the 60s pop singer), speculating about the best business model for legalised cannabis. His idea was to market it as a high-end (i.e. expensive, therefore high profit) luxury product aimed at middle-class people - after-dinner hash chocolates, that sort of thing. He even mocked up some quite amusing Ferrero Rocher-type ads. 

Edited April 15, 2018 by mjmooney

[LondonLax]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, I can see it now, regulated and quality inspected drugs that pay the correct level of tax. All available at all hours, at reasonable prices, in some of the less celebrated areas of towns.

That'll cause the illegal trade to melt away.

Once I can go to my local Spar and get what I want, when I want, at the price I'm used to paying, those gangs and their dodgy product will have no place and everything will improve.

That'll be a pint of milk, some special K and some special K please love. I've brought my own reusable bag.

I think it should be sold at pharmacy type outlets and you would probably need a licence to buy. There would still be a black market of course but predominantly with a genuine regulated product being sold 'aftermarket'. I'm sure there would also be backyard counterfeit operations as well but they would be reduced to a much smaller percentage of the market share compared with 100% now. 

I also think it would change attitudes towards a lot of drugs. 

[wazzap24]

1 hour ago, chrisp65 said:

Yes, I can see it now, regulated and quality inspected drugs that pay the correct level of tax. All available at all hours, at reasonable prices, in some of the less celebrated areas of towns.

That'll cause the illegal trade to melt away.

Once I can go to my local Spar and get what I want, when I want, at the price I'm used to paying, those gangs and their dodgy product will have no place and everything will improve.

That'll be a pint of milk, some special K and some special K please love. I've brought my own reusable bag.

Blanket legalisation wouldn't, as I assume you're suggesting, solve the problem on its own.

There is however, a valid argument that continuing to fight an unwinnable war on drugs in the way that we are, is more than a bit daft. 

There needs to be a change. Blanket prohibition hasn't and never will work. 

Your shop argument doesn't stack up for all drugs. Cannabis legalisation in the states is working. It's a culture thing too, not necessarily about getting the cheapest hit you can buy. If it were legalised here, you'd see a similar trend. 

It's already happening in the illegal market over here as well. I get offered half a dozen strains now when I see my guy, plus edibles (all packaged, with branding, ingredients, dosage etc etc), oils, syrups etc. It's  not just about a cheap high.

Wider consideration is needed on some of the harder stuff, but supply and (more importantly) demand continues to grow. Something different needs to be done.  

 

 

[wazzap24]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

Many years ago (80s?) there was a really good TV programme put together by the late Adam Faith (yes, that one, the 60s pop singer), speculating about the best business model for legalised cannabis. His idea was to market it as a high-end (i.e. expensive, therefore high profit) luxury product aimed at middle-class people - after-dinner hash chocolates, that sort of thing. He even mocked up some quite amusing Ferrero Rocher-type ads. 

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.greenstate.com/food-travel/americas-top-10-cannabis-chefs/amp/

Quote

Cannabis is no longer something that chefs just smoke outside the kitchen door. Now that it’s out of the alley, chefs are, too, developing award-winning edibles, staging schmancy cannabis dinners, and pairing marijuana with food in a way that’s more haute than hippie.

 

[bickster]

Here's something you may or may not know. If you use cannabis you will most likely fail a roadside police drug swipe, 6 weeks after you used the substance, it is detectable in your body that long after use. Thats disqualification, a criminal record and a big fine, 6 weeks after you had a toke.

Shocked me tbh and my source was a high up traffic cop who we're organising an awareness campaign with

[chrisp65]

48 minutes ago, wazzap24 said:

Blanket legalisation wouldn't, as I assume you're suggesting, solve the problem on its own.

There is however, a valid argument that continuing to fight an unwinnable war on drugs in the way that we are, is more than a bit daft. 

There needs to be a change. Blanket prohibition hasn't and never will work. 

Your shop argument doesn't stack up for all drugs. Cannabis legalisation in the states is working. It's a culture thing too, not necessarily about getting the cheapest hit you can buy. If it were legalised here, you'd see a similar trend. 

It's already happening in the illegal market over here as well. I get offered half a dozen strains now when I see my guy, plus edibles (all packaged, with branding, ingredients, dosage etc etc), oils, syrups etc. It's  not just about a cheap high.

Wider consideration is needed on some of the harder stuff, but supply and (more importantly) demand continues to grow. Something different needs to be done.  

I do agree with your point, and I think I'm about to betray my middle class pretentions here.

But I don't think the market for people choosing various styles of hash is where the problem is. The current problem is with the people bumping along the bottom shoplifting bacon to earn the money for spice. Or whatever similar scenario is trending this week in the tabloids.

That's where branded cannabis oil isn't going to impact on the gang violence or the people laid out in shopping malls. £10 each for some relaxing after dinner mints available after a quick health chat in Boots is not going to undermine street trade in smack or fantanyl.

[chrisp65]

6 minutes ago, bickster said:

Here's something you may or may not know. If you use cannabis you will most likely fail a roadside police drug swipe, 6 weeks after you used the substance, it is detectable in your body that long after use. Thats disqualification, a criminal record and a big fine, 6 weeks after you had a toke.

Shocked me tbh and my source was a high up traffic cop who we're organising an awareness campaign with

By the same token, it could be the case that most prisons wouldn't use sniffer dogs on contractors entering prisons on Mondays and Tuesdays. Gives everyone a fair chance of getting the weekend out of their hair and clothes.

 

 

[LondonLax]

39 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I do agree with your point, and I think I'm about to betray my middle class pretentions here.

But I don't think the market for people choosing various styles of hash is where the problem is. The current problem is with the people bumping along the bottom shoplifting bacon to earn the money for spice. Or whatever similar scenario is trending this week in the tabloids.

That's where branded cannabis oil isn't going to impact on the gang violence or the people laid out in shopping malls. £10 each for some relaxing after dinner mints available after a quick health chat in Boots is not going to undermine street trade in smack or fantanyl.

I don’t think anyone is offering a magic bullet, just suggesting possible ways to improve the current arrangement. 

[wazzap24]

2 hours ago, chrisp65 said:

I do agree with your point, and I think I'm about to betray my middle class pretentions here.

But I don't think the market for people choosing various styles of hash is where the problem is. The current problem is with the people bumping along the bottom shoplifting bacon to earn the money for spice. Or whatever similar scenario is trending this week in the tabloids.

That's where branded cannabis oil isn't going to impact on the gang violence or the people laid out in shopping malls. £10 each for some relaxing after dinner mints available after a quick health chat in Boots is not going to undermine street trade in smack or fantanyl.

You're absolutely right. Different ball games.

My point would be, would legalisation of pot for example, not only raise additional taxes (not just on the product itself, but employment, growing equipment, shops etc), but also allow the authorities to concentrate more resources on the proper harmful stuff and the criminality associated with it? 

The current system is completely unfit for purpose and imo is actively making things worse. 

[wazzap24]

2 hours ago, bickster said:

Here's something you may or may not know. If you use cannabis you will most likely fail a roadside police drug swipe, 6 weeks after you used the substance, it is detectable in your body that long after use. Thats disqualification, a criminal record and a big fine, 6 weeks after you had a toke.

Shocked me tbh and my source was a high up traffic cop who we're organising an awareness campaign with

There seems to be a lot of conflicting rumour and not a lot of facts on this.

I've heard everything from a few hours, to a few weeks.

I have seen some (spurious) test results that indicate the active 'THC' element will drop to below the legal level within 6-8hrs of consumption, but that depends on strength, amounts and the individual consuming it (height, weight etc).

it would appear that the test does actively separate the CBD and THC elements of the drug. The THC moves out of your system a lot quicker. 

 

[Dr_Pangloss]

What's quite scary is the rapid increase in addiction to drugs like Xanax and other Benzodiazepines, especially among young people. These drugs are obviously available on prescription but that certainly doesn't drive the illicit production and supply away at all. 

I can see the arguments for legalising drugs, you can collect tax on them, ensure a safe supply etc, this would almost certainly put a massive margin squeeze on drug cartels and lower level dealers, but I think it would almost certainly be the case that a lot more people will experiment and get hooked on drugs than you would in the current state of affairs. 

Arguing for the legalisation of cannabis is pretty much low hanging fruit, most of us can accept that it's fairly harmless, with the evidence suggesting that it really only has a detrimental affect on people whose brains aren't fully developed (i.e. young people). But having class A drugs such as cocaine and highly addictive opioids and psychoactive drugs (e.g. Fentanyl, Benzodiazepines and 'non-benzodiazepines') readily available is a catastrophe waiting to happen.

[maqroll]

Is there any traction on legalization in the Labour party at the moment?

[HanoiVillan]

24 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Is there any traction on legalization in the Labour party at the moment?

None whatsoever. Labour have a long history of tightening drug laws, and it's unlikely to change. 

[AVFCDAN]

The first step is decriminalisation then we can worry about legalisation.

So much money and police resources are wasted on bringing down the dealers only for them to be immediately replaced by the next one in the chain. In reality they aren't even busting dealers anymore but instead its user dealers who are forced to be the middleman in response to more aggressive police investigation.

Its shocking how short sighted the whole thing is, there's really no benefit to carrying on as we currently are.

[Daweii]

16 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

What's quite scary is the rapid increase in addiction to drugs like Xanax and other Benzodiazepines, especially among young people.

The biggest issue with that is that the youth of today don't need to go to some shady drug dealer to get them. All of these drugs are available on the dark web and will be delivered to your front door (PO Box if you're smart) within days. I would imagine that most of these young people addicted are ordering this stuff in which just makes it so easy. Royal Mail doesn't have the facilities to check every package and if they eventually do start random sniffer dog checks then Weed would get flagged, Cocaine and Ecstacy too, but I don't think sniffer dogs are trained to smell for Xanax or Percocet. 

[Xann]

2 hours ago, Daweii said:

... All of these drugs are available on the dark web...

Recently a friend's daughter in higher ed pitched up with something very exotic, if not particularly dangerous or illegal.

There was obvious parental concern about who she was mixing with?

It was some IT geek at uni getting orders in for his mates.

[Dr_Pangloss]

3 hours ago, Daweii said:

The biggest issue with that is that the youth of today don't need to go to some shady drug dealer to get them. All of these drugs are available on the dark web and will be delivered to your front door (PO Box if you're smart) within days. I would imagine that most of these young people addicted are ordering this stuff in which just makes it so easy. Royal Mail doesn't have the facilities to check every package and if they eventually do start random sniffer dog checks then Weed would get flagged, Cocaine and Ecstacy too, but I don't think sniffer dogs are trained to smell for Xanax or Percocet. 

They don't but they often still do, street Xanex for instance is more highly dosed and often combined with caffeine and other benzodiazepines. 

[villakram]

Legalized drugs for profit. No need to reinvent the wheel.

 

[Xann]

This Twitter page tests pills that are showing up in clubs and festivals.

Notably toxic or potent types are highlighted - The Loop