PieFacE Posted October 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2017 I got the strongest Acid I could find on Silk Road once thinking I was mentally strong and could handle it. Had a bad trip that lasted about 3 days. Will never ever ever touch a mind-bending drug again. Was horrible. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I think my main concern with legalising drugs is that we've legalised alcohol and people still abuse it and act like clearings in the woods. Imagine those same people, freely able to go and buy coke or whatever other drugs they want - it would be a nightmare. I dunno what the answer is, but if you're strong willed enough, then it's pretty easy to say "no" to drugs, even with peer pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted October 12, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I think my main concern with legalising drugs is that we've legalised alcohol and people still abuse it and act like clearings in the woods. Imagine those same people, freely able to go and buy coke or whatever other drugs they want - it would be a nightmare. I dunno what the answer is, but if you're strong willed enough, then it's pretty easy to say "no" to drugs, even with peer pressure. I think drugs like coke and weed are basically freely available anyway. It's not hard to get hold of it. Maybe the solution would be to legalise it but just massively crackdown on the health implications, much like cigarettes and tobacco? I don't have any stats to back this up, but my general feeling is that cigarette usage is on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 10 minutes ago, lapal_fan said: I think my main concern with legalising drugs is that we've legalised alcohol and people still abuse it and act like clearings in the woods. Imagine those same people, freely able to go and buy coke or whatever other drugs they want - it would be a nightmare. I dunno what the answer is, but if you're strong willed enough, then it's pretty easy to say "no" to drugs, even with peer pressure. There was a study some time ago, maybe 4 or 5 years back, that concluded based on both harm to the user and harm to society as a whole, alcohol is by far the "worst" drug out there. Something like heroin and crystal meth being the worst drugs for the user and alcohol and crack cocaine being the worst for society. The thing is that people view it as "legal". The vast majority of Brits will have had a pint or two. I imagine there's a huge amount who have abused alcohol to the point of being sick. What about being unconscious? Completely out of control? But it's normalised. It's legal. It's fine. Nothing to do with peer pressure IMO - just a very, very outdated classification system and treatment of users. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Worked for a psychedelic band for 5 years in the early 90s. Colourful times. New Year's Eve 94/5, (perhaps 95/6?) comprised of Champagne, Skunk, mescaline, MDMA and DMT. Words don't quite cover the mentalness of that evening. Type Alex Grey Images into Google. It was a little bit like being in the middle of all that. There ended the psychedelic spell. I felt that getting any further out there was running the risk of not being able to return. So I stopped on a high and never went back. Glad I did it. Glad I stopped. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 minute ago, bobzy said: There was a study some time ago, maybe 4 or 5 years back, that concluded based on both harm to the user and harm to society as a whole, alcohol is by far the "worst" drug out there. Something like heroin and crystal meth being the worst drugs for the user and alcohol and crack cocaine being the worst for society. The thing is that people view it as "legal". The vast majority of Brits will have had a pint or two. I imagine there's a huge amount who have abused alcohol to the point of being sick. What about being unconscious? Completely out of control? But it's normalised. It's legal. It's fine. Nothing to do with peer pressure IMO - just a very, very outdated classification system and treatment of users. Maybe. As I said, never been involved or subjected to or been around drugs etc - I have absolutely no intention of taking anything. I very rarely get drunk, I'm always in control when I do, even if legally I can't drive a car. That said, I rarely drink alcohol either to be honest - although I do enjoy a glass of whisky (for the taste) every few weeks or something (still got half a bottle from my 30th in April!). Another silly thing to say, but I feel it at the moment, is that I get all the highs I need by just being interested in stuff and finding things out. I get wonder staring out a window overlooking the sea, I get endorphin rushes and the feeling of contentment from the most silly things, I don't understand why people get addicted to drugs. I know some people lose family members and drugs hide the pain - and all of the other depressing stuff which makes people turn to them, but then if it was legal, they'd still have the same issues - they're not doing it for a fun, or to make a great night out even better. I'd try a hallucinogen if I could guarantee it would be good fun, but as others have said, it can go wrong - so I'm not taking the risk of having a shit 3 days for the sake of a good 3 hours. And for the boring people out there who just sit about, doing nothing all day apart from getting high - I find life more interesting than just sitting about and getting monged. We only live once, may as well make the most of it and go and see as much as I can and do as much stuff as I can. If I'm a bored 70-odd year old then I might consider it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFCDAN Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: "In the past five years deaths involving heroin in the UK have rocketed. Is it time for a radical solution? If you read the book i mentioned earlier you will see that one method that the drugs gangs employ to keep the users in line is to give them a bad hit which ultimately kills them. This was used as a direct retaliation against undercover police work, yet another example that the war on drugs is just making things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 3 hours ago, lapal_fan said: Maybe. As I said, never been involved or subjected to or been around drugs etc - I have absolutely no intention of taking anything. I very rarely get drunk, I'm always in control when I do, even if legally I can't drive a car. That said, I rarely drink alcohol either to be honest - although I do enjoy a glass of whisky (for the taste) every few weeks or something (still got half a bottle from my 30th in April!)... ...I know some people lose family members and drugs hide the pain - and all of the other depressing stuff which makes people turn to them, but then if it was legal, they'd still have the same issues - they're not doing it for a fun, or to make a great night out even better... ...And for the boring people out there who just sit about, doing nothing all day apart from getting high - I find life more interesting than just sitting about and getting monged. We only live once, may as well make the most of it and go and see as much as I can and do as much stuff as I can. If I'm a bored 70-odd year old then I might consider it As you've mentioned with your alcohol intake, there's a very big middle ground between complete sobriety and "doing nothing all day apart from getting high". It's clear that drugs aren't your thing - you probably don't smoke, you don't drink much etc. - you get your kicks elsewhere. But you (and others) shouldn't put people down because they enjoy a drink, a line, a smoke or a tab. I see drugs users overall akin to adrenaline "junkies" (apt term!) - some people really enjoy throwing themselves off a bridge on a stretchy rope. For others, the view from the top is absolutely fine. To criminalise someone for enjoying themselves and doing no harm to others is, IMO, wrong. The problem isn't the usage of drugs persay - it's the lack of appropriate facilitation/help for those who have problems as a result of usage and the providers doing all sorts of nasty things to them in order to cut costs (or, as @AVFCDAN implies above, even more sinister means). If those adrenaline junkies repeatedly break their bones, they go to hospital each time and get it sorted. Why can't addiction be seen in a similar light? We're just about getting there with mental health. Maybe/hopefully we're not too far off. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lapal_fan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 1 hour ago, bobzy said: As you've mentioned with your alcohol intake, there's a very big middle ground between complete sobriety and "doing nothing all day apart from getting high". It's clear that drugs aren't your thing - you probably don't smoke, you don't drink much etc. - you get your kicks elsewhere. But you (and others) shouldn't put people down because they enjoy a drink, a line, a smoke or a tab. I see drugs users overall akin to adrenaline "junkies" (apt term!) - some people really enjoy throwing themselves off a bridge on a stretchy rope. For others, the view from the top is absolutely fine. To criminalise someone for enjoying themselves and doing no harm to others is, IMO, wrong. The problem isn't the usage of drugs persay - it's the lack of appropriate facilitation/help for those who have problems as a result of usage and the providers doing all sorts of nasty things to them in order to cut costs (or, as @AVFCDAN implies above, even more sinister means). If those adrenaline junkies repeatedly break their bones, they go to hospital each time and get it sorted. Why can't addiction be seen in a similar light? We're just about getting there with mental health. Maybe/hopefully we're not too far off. I did meant to say, I'm absolutely up for helping people who want help - that's really not my issue. I guess you are pretty close to "I don't approve of people doing coke etc" - but I think that's my social conditioning more than anything. As long as it doesn't affect OTHER people though, then as far as I'm concerned - feel free - add you say, we all have our ways of feeling good. But there is a small part of me which says "a coke addict died of a massive heart attack? Maybe he/she had it coming?" But that's pretty insensitive, but I guess if you know the risk and still do it, then that's your choice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I know you don't approve of drugs @lapal_fan which I've figured out over the time I've been on this forum, but I must say you have been very caring and even helpful towards me. I'll always appreciate that because I mean nothing to you, but you take the time out to say positive things. I know your problem with me doing it is because I have kids and it pisses you off that kids can get caught up in this unnecessary shit.respect to you and many others on this forum. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 5 hours ago, lapal_fan said: I think my main concern with legalising drugs is that we've legalised alcohol and people still abuse it and act like clearings in the woods. Imagine those same people, freely able to go and buy coke or whatever other drugs they want - it would be a nightmare. I dunno what the answer is, but if you're strong willed enough, then it's pretty easy to say "no" to drugs, even with peer pressure. Legalising drugs would have to be limited to dispensaries with a card system tied to a centralised country wide database, it's the only way I can see it working. I mean like you said if people could just go to the local supermarket and load up on £1000 worth of Cocaine it would create more of a problem than it solves. Having dedicated dispensaries where you "sign in" before you purchase something, that is then tracked on a database could be a way to limit peoples daily or weekly intake. It's a hard problem to solve, but I am sure at some point they will attempt to solve it as legalising all drugs is billions of pounds worth of tax they would begin to get. It may also make drug use safer as the drugs will no longer be cut and mixed with who knows what. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, Daweii said: Legalising drugs would have to be limited to dispensaries with a card system tied to a centralised country wide database, it's the only way I can see it working. I mean like you said if people could just go to the local supermarket and load up on £1000 worth of Cocaine it would create more of a problem than it solves. Having dedicated dispensaries where you "sign in" before you purchase something, that is then tracked on a database could be a way to limit peoples daily or weekly intake. It's a hard problem to solve, but I am sure at some point they will attempt to solve it as legalising all drugs is billions of pounds worth of tax they would begin to get. It may also make drug use safer as the drugs will no longer be cut and mixed with who knows what. Interesting view - why do you think limiting it is the right solution? I think there should be, as with alcohol, a "no serve" policy to someone who is already too intoxicated, but a limit on what you can buy seems counterproductive. You're just sending people back to streets/elsewhere to get the rest, if needed. Plus, it's unlikely that people are just going to go and grab £1,000 worth of cocaine. The idea that legalisation would lead to mass consumption doesn't compute with me. If anything, personally, I'm likely to take less because it would no longer be "a pain" to sort out a deal. Completely agree on the tax and safer drug points. I'm sure it would also cost less to actively tackle the drug issue and provide help where needed rather than simply cleaning up afterwards and dealing with the crime element. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wazzap24 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Drugs are not 'bad'. Drugs are not the problem. The problem, like with pretty much everything else, is people. There is so much misinformation, under-education and downright stupidity when it comes to drugs and current legislation it's a complete omnishambles. Successive governments have been absolutely spineless on drugs policies and the issues surrounding them. It won't change. Dealers will keep dealing and takers will keep taking. Quality and availability has never been better. If you like drugs, it's a golden age. Meanwhile, the rest go on about 'bloody druggies', whilst chucking back their third large Merlot of the evening or a couple of Nytol, you know, 'just to help them sleep' or even those good pain killers with the Codeine in, maybe even a drop of night nurse, take the edge off. Wouldn't touch drugs though, they are bad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daweii Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 11 minutes ago, bobzy said: Interesting view - why do you think limiting it is the right solution? I think there should be, as with alcohol, a "no serve" policy to someone who is already too intoxicated, but a limit on what you can buy seems counterproductive. You're just sending people back to streets/elsewhere to get the rest, if needed. Plus, it's unlikely that people are just going to go and grab £1,000 worth of cocaine. The idea that legalisation would lead to mass consumption doesn't compute with me. If anything, personally, I'm likely to take less because it would no longer be "a pain" to sort out a deal. Completely agree on the tax and safer drug points. I'm sure it would also cost less to actively tackle the drug issue and provide help where needed rather than simply cleaning up afterwards and dealing with the crime element. You see I hadn't thought of the potential negatives that limiting people could create. As you said it would just send them back to the drug dealers that such a legalised system could potentially eliminate. I certainly agree more with a "no serve" policy for already intoxicated customers. A lot more complicated of a system than I first considered. You have a point on the £1000 worth of Cocaine thing. I mean if I think about Alcohol a substance that has been open to purchase legally for hundreds and hundreds of years I have never done what I outlined in the Cocaine example. Yes I have spent a lot of Alcohol, but often it's to buy one really good bottle of something rather than 100 bottles of something as strong just to get wrecked. So maybe you're right, I mean Amsterdam doesn't have a Weed problem despite having places to legally buy and smoke it for as long as I can remember. I definitely jumped the gun on the idea of mass consumption following legalisation. Hmm lots to think about with regards to regulation and legalisation that I didn't consider. I knew regulation would be a lot more complicated than set up dispensaries and go, but there was so much I failed to think about. I appreciate your response bobzy, it was interesting to see where the potential faults in my plan were. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I've had a night on the beer with my music tonight (standard Thursday night) I got listening to stuff from the early 00's (2000's, early two thousandths...I don't know what you would call that) Any way I was listening to shit from when I was aged between 17 and 23, I remember every song 100%, I have no idea what I was doing with my life at that point, the whole thing is a blur, I remember the music and certain situations but on a whole its a blank. This sort of thing has been playing on my mind just lately, I'm 32 or 33 ( I had this conversation earlier in the week, apparently I'm 32 but I'm sure I'm 33) and I have lost a good 6 or 7 years of my life to partying. Now I still say that I wouldn't change those days for anything, I had a **** blast, it was crazy, we took everything, we did everything, we were **** mad. Now I sit alone in my 1 bedroom flat that I rent, I'm in a dead end job, I'm single, I don't even know how old I am any more, I have nothing apart from me and my music...I can't help but think that the years of abuse have contributed to this, I know that I have a few issues with people in general and I reckon that could be attributed to some of the drugs I took. Would I go back and change it...I don't think I would, the only things that keep me sane sometimes are those memories, **** good times they were, without them, who knows, I could be married with kids and **** miserable, as it is I'm single lonely and believe it or not quite happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leemond2008 Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 The one thing I never took was Ketamine, I wouldn't even allow myself to be around if my mates were doing that, my brain has always been a frightening place, I never felt the need to put myself in that place, I don't know if I would ever have recovered from that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 (edited) A good vantage point over a muddy slope can be good value at festivals. NSFW - Course Language Edited October 12, 2017 by Xann 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlwaysAVFC Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 One of my best mates had that back thing going on one night in Fabric. The weird thing was, as far as I know he had no Ket. He'd had a line or 2 of coke but nothing else. The coke was fine as well. Also helped someone up a slope at Glastonbury one year doing the same, but he was certainly on Ket and would never have got where he wanted without help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rugeley Villa Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 (edited) Never liked ketamine. I've had it an handful of times and once when I had it in pill form I was a horrible mess. The odd little line here and there weren't too bad, but yeah not for me. Edited October 13, 2017 by Rugeley Villa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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