Danwichmann Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 1 hour ago, maqroll said: Ellis was a dickhead, but he wasn't a complete catastrophe. When I think Ellis, I think Yorke, Savo, Southgate, Ehiogu, Taylor, Wright, Dublin, Barry, JPA, Nilis, Ginola, Merson, Carbone, Laursen and Mellberg. We were still a club under Ellis that could put a streak of fear in teams. We are a total disaster under Lerner. Things have gone from bad to worse every step of the way with Lerner. If Ellis stayed he may have been just football-savvy enough to keep us in the Premier League a few years more until a real proper buyer came around. Lerner has no clue about the price of milk. Shame Villa have been saddled with both of them. We deserve better. That's just a matter of time and perspective though, surely? Can just add easily say that in 10 years well look back on Lerner's time and think of Carew, Benteke, Milner, Downing and Young. We deserve better than both, agree with you on that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) 1 hour ago, Danwichmann said: That's just a matter of time and perspective though, surely? Can just add easily say that in 10 years well look back on Lerner's time and think of Carew, Benteke, Milner, Downing and Young. We deserve better than both, agree with you on that point. But there was never a Villa side that contained the players you listed that was on a team that could challenge for the league. The Yorke and Dublin era Villa sides had the legitimate possibility of at least UEFA Cup ties and a couple of league cup and runs on the league itself. Villa Park used to seem like a fortress, with that Villa mist... How the **** did this happen that I love this football club so much? Aston Villa are like royalty in exile. A giant among football clubs, Aston Villa is known the world over for tradition and winning. We will be back. Edited April 16, 2016 by maqroll 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Lerner's actually been spotted going for a stroll ahead of the Man U game today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duck Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 1 hour ago, StanBalaban said: Lerner's actually been spotted going for a stroll ahead of the Man U game today. Clearly photoshopped. The lion is still alive 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 4 hours ago, maqroll said: We are a total disaster under Lerner. Things have gone from bad to worse every step of the way with Lerner. If Ellis stayed he may have been just football-savvy enough to keep us in the Premier League a few years more until a real proper buyer came around. Lerner has no clue about the price of milk. we would have went down 2006/07 under Ellis and probably be were Leeds or Sheffield Wednesday are now, he pulled the plug and couldnt even afford Eirik Bakke on loan, the players were furious hence that letter to the newspaper 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 10 hours ago, krisagg75 said: you're not old enough to remember the relegations then.in 87/88 i was at southampton when we lost 5-0 and were 4-0 down after 20 mins.both ellis and lerner are a stain on our club.ellis took us to the 3rd division in 69/70,that was worse than now. I've been a regular at Villa since '77 and a season ticket holder for most of those years as well, and I know Ellis' downfalls all too well, but they were nothing compared to the shame and humiliations of the 6 consecutive relegation battles we've just had under Lerner with all their record breaking crapness in which we've been turned into something we have never been under Ellis, and that is a national laughing stock. This is the reality of Aston Villa under the stewardship of Randy Lerner. The man is a stain on the history of this great football club. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 7 hours ago, Danwichmann said: Yeah, we were glowing with pride when we lost 3 0 at Doncaster, got thrashed by SHA twice in a season. Those were the days. The bad days under Ellis were relatively few and far between. The bad days under Lerner have lasted the best part of 6 horrible, humiliating years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danwichmann Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) 3 hours ago, maqroll said: But there was never a Villa side that contained the players you listed that was on a team that could challenge for the league. The Yorke and Dublin era Villa sides had the legitimate possibility of at least UEFA Cup ties and a couple of league cup and runs on the league itself. Villa Park used to seem like a fortress, with that Villa mist... How the **** did this happen that I love this football club so much? Aston Villa are like royalty in exile. A giant among football clubs, Aston Villa is known the world over for tradition and winning. We will be back. Even during the Yorke and Dublin eras we never seriously challenged for the league, but no denying it was nice to be top for a while and dream. There were also some good times under Lerner for the first years, I've got fond memories from both eras, but all ultimately ruined by how they finished. I think there are a lot of modified memories of what it was like under Ellis at the end. I'm convinced that had he stayed longer, we'd have been down years ago. But this is like arguing over whether it's worse to be strung up by your right or your left testicle. I don't care who was worse anymore, I care who comes next and what the future holds. We will be back. I just hope it's this decade. Edited April 16, 2016 by Danwichmann Predictive text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Obviously Lerner has been dreadful but I think there's a tendency among some people to look back at Ellis with rose-tinted glasses. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Mantis said: Obviously Lerner has been dreadful but I think there's a tendency among some people to look back at Ellis with rose-tinted glasses. Not by me, Ellis was awful. Lerner is worse 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 16, 2016 Moderator Share Posted April 16, 2016 Ellis was malignant, his intention was to milk the club for his own benefit - that was his aim - to use Aston Villa to make money for Doug Ellis. Lerner is benign, his intention was to make the club better, he failed at that and now his intention is to find a way out, he's willing to lose a lot of money to do that. Competence is something different and you can certainly argue that a man with no more ambition than to ensure his cash cow could still be milked was so much more competent than a man who would have liked a football club to succeed that he actually managed to run the football club more successfully for his own benefit than Lerner managed for ours. Ellis was better at running a football club, Lerner had better intention. Ultimately, Aston Villa run reasonably well by Doug Ellis, entirely for the benefit of Doug Ellis has proved more successful than Aston Villa run for the benefit of Aston Villa by Randy Lerner. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 41 minutes ago, Richard said: Not by me, Ellis was awful. Lerner is worse Because...? Bear in mind that Ellis oversaw the dismantling of a League and European Cup winning side who were then relegated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 If I take up a DIY project with my house and **** up the whole thing, I don't blame B&Q. It is my fault and perhaps I need to sell that house, compensating for the awful DIY work for less than it was worth before I **** it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 28 minutes ago, Mantis said: Because...? Bear in mind that Ellis oversaw the dismantling of a League and European Cup winning side who were then relegated. Firstly it's an opinion, I understand some people may not agree with it and some will hold a different one. I'm ok with that as to be honest I don't agree with some of the other opinions on this page about it so that's fine. secondly me saying Lerner is worse than Ellis is not me saying Ellis is good. I do get the feeling that some people have that feeling, that in saying that Lerner is worse then it is a justification or support for Ellis, it isn't. Thirdly,. In much the same way that you have said that you feel there is a tendency to look back on Ellis with rose tinted glasses I feel the opposite really in that some people are a little reticent to express an anti Lerner opinion because to do so , they fear is some tacit support for Ellis or because they vehemently campaigned for the removal of Ellis and fear now to say Lerner is worse is basically showing they we wrong about Ellis or in fact that it backs up an opinion expressed at the time by those not so anti Ellis that we should be careful what we wished for so now it diminishes a little the stance they took then. For me it is not an issue ,. I was anti Ellis I wanted him out I was happy when we had Lerner originally. A few years into his regime I had doubts and since those doubts unfortunately my fears have proven true. Does not mean I was wrong about Ellis . It means I was wrong about Lerner and I'm ok in admitting that. on why I think he is worse it is simple really. Yes under Ellis we were relegated and yes he oversaw an approach where by the managers he employed dismantled an aging team too quickly to try and bring their own players in and then couldn't get them to gel. I accept that. But he then ensured we had the right approach, and the backing to at least get back up and then be competitive again finishing runners up twice and competing for cup wins. When we were relegated I never felt we would struggle to get back up and we didn't really. I camnot see Lerner being as successful in restoring us, can you? id also add that at the time there was not the financial situation we have now. We have benefitted by eating at the top table for 30 years. The money in the last few years should have us out of sight of lesser clubs. But we have been so spectacularly badly run that we will be financially behind the likes of burnley, Brighton, Watford and Swansea from next season and given the gap we will be behind them for a while. Effectively we are now the lesser club. We didn't really have a competitive advantage under Ellis ,. Under Lerner he has taken the competitive advantage we have had and pissed it up the wall. We are a total and utter mess, both on the pitch and off it. A shambles from which I do not see a quick recovery. Behind clubs historically lower then us and behind them for a generation. This is the legacy of Lerner and this is why he is worse than Ellis. Under Ellis we failed to capitalise and compete with the likes of arsenal and manure. Under Lerner we can't compete with Stoke, Swansea, Watford and **** Bournemouth ffs. on another note under Ellis I still went . I never once thought the players couldn't give a shit. Sure they were a team failing to gel but I always thought they tried. Under Lerner they could not give a shit and to be honest in terms of going to games neither can I. It's all about the culture of the club. A fish rots from the head. So does Aston villa . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 2 hours ago, avfc1982 said: The bad days under Ellis were relatively few and far between. The bad days under Lerner have lasted the best part of 6 horrible, humiliating years. in his last 4 seasons we stayed up twice by skin of teeth especially Taylor MK2 when somehow we had blistering home form to keep us up. Doug was talking us down if he stayed on as no chance MON would have joined under him and we would have been stuck with O'Leary 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojong Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Does Lerner realise finishing last doesn't mean we get first pick in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bojong Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Double post Edited April 16, 2016 by bojong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeMcKenna Posted April 16, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) LERNER **** OFF, you rocket polisher - WORST THING TO HAVE EVER HAPPENED TO AVFC! Edited April 16, 2016 by MikeMcKenna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Hate this word removed so much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 16, 2016 Share Posted April 16, 2016 Time for this custodian to wipe up the massive vomit he's made and leave the keys to someone who actually knows what he's doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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