The Randy Lerner thread

[TRO]

I think Adrian Durham makes an accurate assessment of our demise in the Daily Mail.

 

[It's Your Round]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

I think Adrian Durham makes an accurate assessment of our demise in the Daily Mail.

 

Yes I read that earlier, at least he understands where our problems began. I'm fed up of hearing people say we're only upset because we're going down and blaming Sherwood and Garde. It runs much deeper than them and all started when MON blew fortunes and then jacked off. Lerner was to blame for allowing MON a ridiculously free reign and all of the idiotic decisions that followed. 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/martin-oneill-started-rot-aston-11173230

[DCJonah]

How can we blame a man who has had nothing to do with the team for 6 years. 

And we smashed our club transfer fee months after he left us in this supposed complete financial mess. 

[avfc1982]

4 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

How can we blame a man who has had nothing to do with the team for 6 years. 

And we smashed our club transfer fee months after he left us in this supposed complete financial mess. 

Yeah what a joke. Lerner is to blame for the disgraceful demise of Aston Villa 100%. 

[thabucks]

Agreed @TRO & @it's your round im going to get shot down for not fitting some posters narrative of who is to blame and laying the it 100% on Randy. There is no denying that ultimately & rightly Randy shoulders a large portion of the blame, but in my eyes it's more complicated than that and so many factors have played a part in our demise. But history will remember Randy for the bad decisions galore and relegation, and I guess that what's really matters. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by thabucks
Edited in response to posts

[markavfc40]

9 hours ago, DCJonah said:

How can we blame a man who has had nothing to do with the team for 6 years. 

And we smashed our club transfer fee months after he left us in this supposed complete financial mess. 

If people want to say O'Neill threw a load of money up the wall then fine. Like you say though the club has had six years to sort itself out since then which was ample time.

I personally don't think Randy Lerner is solely 100% to blame for our demise. There have been other bit part players of course there have. Some managers, CEO's for failing to increase non TV commercial income over a 10 year period by more than a single figure percentage, perhaps even the likes of Paddy Reilly. Then there have been a number of players who haven't done close to all they could.

Put simply though Randy Lerner is the man that employed the man that employed the man. In other words he either employed the manager that spent the money that bought the players. Or he employed the CEO who employed the manager who spent the money to buy the players. He employed the CEO's who were out of their depth and failed to increase the clubs non TV revenue at time the Prem League was booming. Randy Lerner is also the man that gambled on us achieving top 4, allowed our wage bill to get to the sixth highest in the league and then shock horror realised we couldn't sustain it so apparently decided to cut costs, although 6 months after apparently making that decision as a last hoorah decided to spend 20 odd mill on Darren Bent and authorise an 80k a week 4 and half year deal.

Bottom line is that we have had six years of decline which has left us with a side on the pitch that can't compete despite us almost certainly having one of the top half dozen wage bills in the division and leaking money like an open tap. There has been only one constant during that six years and despite a number of bit part players Randy Lerner has overseen it all and is therefore ultimately responsible for where we find ourselves.

Edited April 13, 2016 by markavfc40

[PussEKatt]

To find out who is to blame for the position we are in, all you have to do is answer 2 simple questions.

1-Who are the "high earners"?..............Answer: the best players at the club.

2- Get rid of the High earners................Answer: get rid of our best players and replace them with players that are of a lower quality.

Result: Is what we have now. A team of low quality players.

Who is to blame for all this ?................Lerner, and he isnt finished yet.

[markavfc40]

2 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

To find out who is to blame for the position we are in, all you have to do is answer 2 simple questions.

1-Who are the "high earners"?..............Answer: the best players at the club.

2- Get rid of the High earners................Answer: get rid of our best players and replace them with players that are of a lower quality.

Result: Is what we have now. A team of low quality players.

Who is to blame for all this ?................Lerner.

No offence mate but I don’t think it is anywhere near that simple. Last year our wage bill rose quite steeply and would have been certainly comfortably in the top half dozen in the league. I would predict this season it will be at a similar level. Our wage bill doesn’t in anyway reflect our league position though, not even close, so that tells me our problems go way deep than spending money. In fact I would say that a lack of spending money is far down the list of where Lerner has gone wrong.

Money has been spent and continued to be spent even during this last six years of decline. Nowhere near enough to maintain the top six positions we finished in for three years but enough to keep us competitive in the lower half of the table and certainly enough to mean that we would at least be competing to survive. This season we are going to finish well adrift of 19th though and the reason for that isn’t down to money.

For me the reason we have struggled and the reason the club is leaking money all come down to one thing. A lack of nous from the owner and his failure to make up for this by employing people below him, but above the manager, with the expertise and experience to ensure that his investment was spent well and the club grew accordingly. People to ensure that the correct manager was employed to deal with the situations we faced. I think this was never summed up better than this season. Would people who know the game inside out really have allowed a manager that had never bought or sold a player before to oversee a huge overall in players both in and out. I don’t think they would. Would people who know what they were doing have employed a manager who had never managed in this country before, never faced a relegation battle before, to manage a club stuck at the foot of the table after one win in eleven games. I don’t think they would. Going further back would people who know what they are doing have gone from O’Neill to Houllier to McLeish. Chalk and cheese twice in terms of managerial styles. Again I don’t think they would.

On top of that would people who know what they are doing have ensured that during a huge boom time in the Premier League that non TV commercial income grew by more than 6% over a 10 year period. I am certain they would especially given that for three of those years we were actually doing very well on the pitch.

There is a saying a fool and his money are easily parted and I think that applies to Randy Lerner. He has been a fool with his money where Aston Villa are concerned and we as supporters are now paying a big price.

On a more positive note though this can all be turned around I am in no doubt about that.  

Edited April 13, 2016 by markavfc40

[John]

Richard Morrow writes (full column below) in "FinanceAsia" that Wanda (not the fish of the same name) perhaps should look at buying Villa. He says "Villa - looks, in sum, like a great turnaround story in the making. It just needs a backer with the vision and the money to return it to the pinnacle". He asks whether Wang Jianlin (with an estimated of $33.2b by Forbes) might be that man. 

He adds that the Dalian Wanda group "is seeking multiple investment avenues to diversify its revenue streams" and is "keen to expand in the field of entertainment". He admits that buying an English football team, particularly a badly performing one, might not seem the smartest choice and that from a financial perspective it's not a sound investment but adds it is "wildly popular and offers terrific marketing". He refers to Wang's purchase of a $49.04m purchase of a 20% stake in Athletico Madrid in January 2015 and to an affiliate of Dalian Wanda reportedly being one of the rival bidders that lost out on the $265m deal for a 13% stake in the City Football Group that controls Manchester City & New York FC.

Morrow speculates that if Wanda bid as little as £63m (our custodian's initial investment) for a majority stake it might be enough along with perhaps £150m further spending on covering debts, bringing in a shrewd manager and some younger, hungrier more talented players. He suggests that "by taking on and turning around a big team in the world's most watched football country, Wanda could almost immediately catapult its status into international recognition". 

This article is under the heading "What if..Wanda bought Aston Villa" and is from a column that "analyses unusual M & A ideas in Asia. These deals might not take place, but perhaps they should".

Nothing may of course come of this but it at least puts the for sale sign up again and someone at Wanda or somewhere else who reads this just might bite. The sooner the better...           

http://www.financeasia.com/News/407321,what-if8230wanda-bought-aston-villa.aspx?

[Demitri_C]

3 hours ago, John said:

Richard Morrow writes (full column below) in "FinanceAsia" that Wanda (not the fish of the same name) perhaps should look at buying Villa. He says "Villa - looks, in sum, like a great turnaround story in the making. It just needs a backer with the vision and the money to return it to the pinnacle".

Nothing may of course come of this but it at least puts the for sale sign up again and someone at Wanda or somewhere else who reads this just might bite. The sooner the better...           

http://www.financeasia.com/News/407321,what-if8230wanda-bought-aston-villa.aspx?

We can all dream cant we...

[thabucks]

Randy has been awful choosing managers but IMO if he was in charge I reckon Moyes would be a dead cert. Tried previously. Now with the supposed football board in charge who knows what will happen. I'm scared ! 

[rodders0223]

6 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

To find out who is to blame for the position we are in, all you have to do is answer 2 simple questions.

1-Who are the "high earners"?..............Answer: the best players at the club.

2- Get rid of the High earners................Answer: get rid of our best players and replace them with players that are of a lower quality.

Result: Is what we have now. A team of low quality players.

Who is to blame for all this ?................Lerner, and he isnt finished yet.

Gabby, Bent, Ireland, Hutton (pre contract), Given and Zog weren't the best players at the club though.

Edited April 13, 2016 by rodders0223

[terrytini]

I wont copy them all out but your last 2 Posts say pretty much it all for me Mark..........I would only add/alter that IMO there have been2/3 years where Lerner has added a cancerous indifference to his previous misjudgements, and for me that is why he rightly carries the can.  If it were JUST poor management that's one thing, but his neglect of the Club, in the later years - I don't mean just money, I mean treating it as if it were an unwelcome relative at a party,  - that has been inexcusable.  That as much as anything probably accounts for why fans see him as pretty much the sole problem.

 

For me though, he has fixed that.  Yes it is early days but I genuinely think he has, at last, realised that HE was the problem, and has removed himself from the equation.  HE now can be as indifferent as he likes, there are people here now who will sort the Club out, people who actually WANT to be involved. (Yeah I know some are to be convinced, fair enough)....

[TRO]

22 hours ago, It's Your Round said:

Yes I read that earlier, at least he understands where our problems began. I'm fed up of hearing people say we're only upset because we're going down and blaming Sherwood and Garde. It runs much deeper than them and all started when MON blew fortunes and then jacked off. Lerner was to blame for allowing MON a ridiculously free reign and all of the idiotic decisions that followed. 

http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/martin-oneill-started-rot-aston-11173230

Lerner was at fault....but it was widely accepted that Martin O'Neill knew what he was doing and RL was on the back drop of fans accusing HDE of interferring. I don't think he wanted to be seen as the same as HDE

He simply couldn't see the dangers only the Glory and relied on O'Neill too much.

If while MON was there Randy was putting the block on many of his signings, there would have been uproar.

We can't have it both ways.

I was a big advocate of MON and Randy Lerner.....it went pear shaped.....and we have got gradually worse ever since.

There have been instances in the past where strong managers have had their own way....but it has worked for them, but not for us, unfortunately.

 

 

[TRO]

This is in no way a mark of mitigation, but Randy Lerner never joined us in the mood he is in now.

I find it perplexing, but at the same time intriguing how we have seen such a change of attitude in an owner.

from his perspective alone something must have changed for the worst for him to lose as much interest as he did.

[TRO]

23 hours ago, DCJonah said:

How can we blame a man who has had nothing to do with the team for 6 years. 

And we smashed our club transfer fee months after he left us in this supposed complete financial mess. 

But that is not what Adrian Durham was saying and i don't think anyone else would be foolish enough to suggest that after 6 years....He was referring back to when it all started....when the rot started.......In his opinion.

I think most of us agree since Martin has left it has got gradually worse.

but that does not negate the fact that he walked out on us at a time when we could have done with his management the most.....He left us with a bunch of players that we had no or little fees for and only the best few went any way to balancing the books.

after that it was a car crash and the owner might just as well have left himself, for what he contributed apart from his money.

Ps the Darren Bent deal was just an example of what poor recruiting there was to come.....despite his goals keeping us up.

Edited April 13, 2016 by TRO

[OutByEaster?]

On 11 April 2016 at 08:51, Demitri_C said:

Interesting Read

I stopped when he claimed Almstadt oversaw the transfer policy.

Our famed transfer committee were Fox, Riley and Sherwood.

Almstadt wasn't involved in transfers.

As ever with the Daily Mail, read it then believe the exact opposite, you won't go far wrong.

 

[Davkaus]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

from his perspective alone something must have changed for the worst for him to lose as much interest as he did.

I don't think this is a great mystery. He lost a lot of money in his divorce apparently, and when he bought this club and had a vision for a "bright future", Man City were owned by the comparatively destitute former prime minister of Thailand.

[terrytini]

1 hour ago, Davkaus said:

I don't think this is a great mystery. He lost a lot of money in his divorce apparently, and when he bought this club and had a vision for a "bright future", Man City were owned by the comparatively destitute former prime minister of Thailand.

I don't think it was just money - I spoke to him on practically his first day and he was as genuinely starry eyed and raring to go as anyone could want (I'm sure there are others who would say the same) - he was really genuinely excited.  And after that, when he was looking to buy a house near Birmingham, this was a few years later, the same.  Then suddenly he just seemed to hate the whole thing.  It was like a two stage thing.  The MON/money thing was one, but then a few years after he just lost all interest.

[terrytini]

BTW, I've never quite bought the idea that he unthinkingly bankrolled MON.  I really don't think Marlon Harewood was MONs top choice of a top striker!! - I think there were limits to what he could have.  Anyway, that was then...........