mattyvilla Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Wether he is worse than Ellis is pretty irrelevant to the current situation .Lerner is destroying this club , on and off the field , time to back or sack the manager .This needs sorting out quickly before we become the next wolves, i have no confidence in coming back up if we do go down with Lerner at the helm. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ok have to say this before I post the next bit I wanted Ellis out , campaigned against him he needed to go. Lerner is worse Under Ellis we may have gone down and he may have out nothing of his own wealth into the team BUT Under Ellis we competed on the pitch and we did compete off it Under Ellis at least we had hope of a better future Under Ellis we turned up for games and still had excitement at the start of a new season Under Ellis the club was attractive enough to be bought out Under Ellis he never forgot that first and foremost our business was football Under Ellis at least he came to games and witnessed for himself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CannockVillan Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Different times Richard. Football moved on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 It is pointless arguing but of course Ellis is worse. If Ellis were here running the club in the current environment we would have gone under because he wouldn't have put as much funding in as Lerner has. Ellis was also a lot more disrespectful with his attitude as well which is hardly endearing in an owner. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ok have to say this before I post the next bit I wanted Ellis out , campaigned against him he needed to go. Lerner is worse Under Ellis we may have gone down and he may have out nothing of his own wealth into the team BUT Under Ellis we competed on the pitch and we did compete off it Under Ellis at least we had hope of a better future Under Ellis we turned up for games and still had excitement at the start of a new season Under Ellis the club was attractive enough to be bought out Under Ellis he never forgot that first and foremost our business was football Under Ellis at least he came to games and witnessed for himself (I added the numbering. Apologies) What we could have done had he bothered to put any money in, eh? If our future was so bright, why campaign against him? More exciting than continuous top 6 finishes? That was 10 years ago. Prices go up. That prices out a lot of potential buyers. He also never forgot to line his pockets. Indeed he did. He also made sure everything (and I mean everything) went through himself and himself only. That said, it's like comparing rotten apples to rotten oranges. Lerner has much to answer for also. Basically, neither of them are good enough for our club. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For all his faults, and all the things he's done wrong you can't blame Lerner for 11 goals in 21 games. They don't even get close to scoring. Those players are good enough to score goals. That's the managers fault and you can try all you like but you can't shift the blame onto Lerner for that. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For all his faults, and all the things he's done wrong you can't blame Lerner for 11 goals in 21 games. They don't even get close to scoring. Those players are good enough to score goals. That's the managers fault and you can try all you like but you can't shift the blame onto Lerner for that. He can be apportioned part of the blame as he's never provided the funding to sign players identified by Lamber (and others) that may have made our attacking play better ie, Tadic, Belhanda, Chadli, Mertens, Kiyotake et al (and most likely soon-to-be Sinclair and Gil) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For all his faults, and all the things he's done wrong you can't blame Lerner for 11 goals in 21 games. They don't even get close to scoring. Those players are good enough to score goals. That's the managers fault and you can try all you like but you can't shift the blame onto Lerner for that. He can be apportioned part of the blame as he's never provided the funding to sign players identified by Lamber (and others) that may have made our attacking play better ie, Tadic, Belhanda, Chadli, Mertens, Kiyotake et al (and most likely soon-to-be Sinclair and Gil) Are you saying the players put out yesterday aren't good enough to produce more than one shot on target? That the ones out last week are not good enough to threaten Blackpool? The squad is no better than 11 goals in over half a season? Nah. Not having that. Burley manage to score goals and they didn't need to buy players as mentioned above. Lerner can be blamed for many things, but our lack of goals isn't one of them. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 If you're willing to pay a rediculous price for it. He's not going anywhere if you haven't noticed. Unlike his predecessor, he has put money into the club. He has the right to attempt to recoup some of that money and demand what he thinks it is worth - especially when that price is much less than some of the ridiculous reported prices on other clubs like Tottenham (£1billion). I thought he loaned the club money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I'd also add, did we ever have a 5 year period under Ellis that was this bad? I know he relegated us (before my time) but from my experience a shit season was usually followed by a decent one. This is now consistently shit. If we were relegated this year would anyone change their mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 How good or bad Ellis was is all in the past, it doesn't change the fact we need Lerner to sell up asap. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 For all his faults, and all the things he's done wrong you can't blame Lerner for 11 goals in 21 games. They don't even get close to scoring. Those players are good enough to score goals. That's the managers fault and you can try all you like but you can't shift the blame onto Lerner for that. He can be apportioned part of the blame as he's never provided the funding to sign players identified by Lamber (and others) that may have made our attacking play better ie, Tadic, Belhanda, Chadli, Mertens, Kiyotake et al (and most likely soon-to-be Sinclair and Gil) Are you saying the players put out yesterday aren't good enough to produce more than one shot on target? That the ones out last week are not good enough to threaten Blackpool? The squad is no better than 11 goals in over half a season? Nah. Not having that. Burley manage to score goals and they didn't need to buy players as mentioned above. Lerner can be blamed for many things, but our lack of goals isn't one of them. Obviously the players are not good enough , that's why we're not scoring. I haven't said the owner is the be all and end all in the blame game but surely he has limited the playing squad by not giving the funds necessary. Lambert is also to blame, as are the likes of Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and every other player to have played during our goaless streak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilchard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Obviously the players are not good enough , that's why we're not scoring. I haven't said the owner is the be all and end all in the blame game but surely he has limited the playing squad by not giving the funds necessary. Lambert is also to blame, as are the likes of Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and every other player to have played during our goaless streak. Nah. The players in that squad are better than 11 goals in 21 games. They are players who are in or have been in international squads. I admire your unwavering support for Paul Lambert, but just not sure what he's done to deserve it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samjp26 Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Whether he is worse than Ellis is irrelevant, Lerner is killing our club without a care in the world. It may be a play thing for him, a toy, a rich man's hobby - but for us fans the club is far more than this and seemingly he completely disregards us and how we feel towards the club. I want him gone, we can blame Lambert, we can blame the players, but ultimately the blame lies with Randolph Lerner since he is the only person who can change anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theboyangel Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Obviously the players are not good enough , that's why we're not scoring. I haven't said the owner is the be all and end all in the blame game but surely he has limited the playing squad by not giving the funds necessary. Lambert is also to blame, as are the likes of Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and every other player to have played during our goaless streak. Nah. The players in that squad are better than 11 goals in 21 games. They are players who are in or have been in international squads. I admire your unwavering support for Paul Lambert, but just not sure what he's done to deserve it. Que? My unwavering support of Lambert?!?!? Lambert is part of the problem - I've stated that, the players are part of the problem as is the owner. The club is currently rotten and no one factor can be attributed the entire blame. Apologies for not being a full-on hater as seems to be the current fad. baa baa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexbelowsound Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 (edited) Obviously the players are not good enough , that's why we're not scoring. I haven't said the owner is the be all and end all in the blame game but surely he has limited the playing squad by not giving the funds necessary. Lambert is also to blame, as are the likes of Gabby, Weimann, Benteke and every other player to have played during our goaless streak. Nah. The players in that squad are better than 11 goals in 21 games. They are players who are in or have been in international squads. I admire your unwavering support for Paul Lambert, but just not sure what he's done to deserve it. Is he showing unwavering support or is he looking at the reality of the situation? One in which everyone from Lerner down to the coaching staff are to blame, not just Lambert. Edited January 11, 2015 by sexbelowsound 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted January 11, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ok have to say this before I post the next bit I wanted Ellis out , campaigned against him he needed to go. Lerner is worse Under Ellis we may have gone down and he may have out nothing of his own wealth into the team BUT Under Ellis we competed on the pitch and we did compete off it Under Ellis at least we had hope of a better future Under Ellis we turned up for games and still had excitement at the start of a new season Under Ellis the club was attractive enough to be bought out Under Ellis he never forgot that first and foremost our business was football Under Ellis at least he came to games and witnessed for himself Under Ellis, you could win the league by spending £20m. Today, to win the league, you'd be looking at having to spend maybe 30 or 40 times that to compete - and there are rules in place to stop you doing just that. Competing on and off the pitch was easier in days where the number of fans at the game made a big difference to finances and the ability to compete. Nowadays, there are players at Man City that earn more in a season than the total value of all of our season ticket sales. We had hope for a better future because the future was unregulated, and because that future would most likely not include someone that was leeching off us. We turned up for games and still had excitement at the start of the new season because at the time football was still a sport and not a TV show. TV hadn't fixed in it's main players and arranged things so that they were harder to displace - no one wants to tune in to an episode of Breaking Bad and find that Walter White isn't in it this series - no one in India wants to tune in to the Premier League and find out Chelsea aren't in it this season - it's a TV show dressed up as sport. It wasn't when Doug was here. The club was attractive enough to be bought because there weren't regulations in place that prevented you developing it. FFP means we are a second tier club. Forever. That's what FFP does, that's what it's for - in an instant it has made us a really unattractive prospect for buyers. Would you want to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on an Aston Villa that could finish 10th if things went well - or do you have the money to waste where you could spend the hundreds of millions it would take to make us competitive and the additional hundreds of millions in UEFA fines for doing so? Who do you think is out there who would want so little a return on a club - we're looking for a multi billionaire with more passion than sense. Ellis never forgot that our business first and foremost was football - unfortunately, football did - the business of the Premier League is not first and foremost football - the business of the Premier League, first and foremost is TV. It's not the same. He did come to games, and he still does - in fairness to Doug, he always did, even when we he was hated and vilified at those games - Lerner's inability to front up and give us bad news to our faces remains one of his biggest failings. There have been three footballing worlds in the last twenty years. The old sporting one, with Doug as owner where a little investment, a little care and a little less greed could have seen us be a much better club - Doug was a terrible owner in that era - but he has made himself very rich as a result. The old commercial one - the one Randy Lerner bought into, where a £20m a year investment by an owner had a chance of getting you into the Champions league, and where if he'd made better choices, or been a little braver, Lerner might have achieved that. His biggest failing is in not taking advantage of the scenario he'd correctly identified when buying the club. The new post FFP one - where the Premier League has reached it's natural conclusion as a TV show masquerading as sport and you're either in the big club or you're not, and you're not forever. It's a closed shop, no more multi-billionaires are welcome unless they're buying a club that's already rich. It's the world Lerner is trying to get out of and it's a world that you'd have to be nuts to buy into. Doug is worse than Lerner. This footballing world is worse than the one that Doug worked in. This footballing world is worse than the one Lerner bought into. This footballing world is killing us and the longer things go this way, the less likely it is we'll ever recover. Have a think on it Richard - are you really saying Lerner is worse than Doug or are you saying you preferred the sepia tinged tones of your youth, when the world was a place full of possibility? Lerner has made some very bad decisions, he's missed some opportunities, but he's a victim as is this club of the way in which football has changed - it's going to cost him £200m of daddies money, and he's not rich enough that it doesn't hurt. He's made himself poorer through trying to make us better in foolish ways. I think that's better than a man who's made himself rich through trying to use us to make himself rich. Bit of a ramble that. Sorry I haven't got time to put it into some sort of order. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted January 11, 2015 VT Supporter Share Posted January 11, 2015 Ramble or not - it's a good read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Scott I have thought, yes he is worse than Ellis in my opinion. Sure football has changed, sure the environment we are in has changed. But it has changed for everyone. We competed under Ellis when it was the same for everyone are failing under Lerner when it is the same for everyone. FFP came in under Lerner , did he capitalise or attempt to ? What did he do or has he done to help us under FFP ? Just sit back and blame it? I know times have changed Scott I accept that but it's changed for everyone . Why have the likes of stoke, Southampton, Swansea , wet spam and quite possibly Bournemouth moved ahead of us under the stewardship of Lerner ? It's the same for them as for us. We had a better starting position than those clubs and should have been better placed to have capitalised, sure we are unable to compete with the mega clubs and never will until something radical changes to at least give us a chance. But the clubs I have mentioned? We have gone backwards and that is not down to a changing environment . Worse than Ellis and I accept some will not agree and I understand why as well 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Have to agree with you Richard. Lerner is not a victim in this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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