NurembergVillan Posted February 13, 2021 Moderator Share Posted February 13, 2021 18 minutes ago, cyrusr said: Yeah but what I don’t get is that as these actions took place whilst he was president, surely he is immune then and the proper way to punish him is by impeachment? My knowledge of US constitutional law is reaching its limit! If indeed they can get him on criminal charges, why bother with this impeachment side of things? Just get him criminally. I mean it’s irrelevant as it’s merely the thinnest excuse not to convict him. Surprised that 7 turned though so that’s a positive; presume they are up for re-election in tight seats + Romney? Still all just a circus though isn’t it really? Where else would you get a president push matters so far with no actual consequences? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Oh well. The piece of shit will be dead within the next 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted February 14, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Wainy316 said: Oh well. The piece of shit will be dead within the next 10 years. It's how much shit he will fling from the sidelines in the mean time that's the problem. Geeing up his cult members to even more violence - and then running again in 2024. The GOP are morally bankrupt. I still think their flirtation with this fascist and his sicko incel followers will ultimately destroy the GOP, but how many will die before then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 14, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 14, 2021 What are these criminal and civil charges he can apparently face? Something actually serious, incitement to murder? Can a man with serious convictions run for president? To get away with what he did is a shocking reflection on American politics. I can't believe that enough Republicans didn't have the moral fibre to do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 minute ago, sidcow said: I can't believe that enough Republicans didn't have the moral fibre to do the right thing. I can! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 11 hours ago, bickster said: It's less of a percentage of vote than a jury. The problem isn't the percentage required, the problem is who is voting Yes, that’s the problem I assumed to. No point in having a trial with a non-neutral jury. It’s a complete waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 3 hours ago, sidcow said: What are these criminal and civil charges he can apparently face? Something actually serious, incitement to murder? Can a man with serious convictions run for president? To get away with what he did is a shocking reflection on American politics. I can't believe that enough Republicans didn't have the moral fibre to do the right thing. Those Republicans will get their just desserts if he runs again. This was their opportunity to make it so he can't. If he chooses to either as the Republican nominee or an independent they have zero chance of winning the White House next time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 8 hours ago, Genie said: Yes, that’s the problem I assumed to. No point in having a trial with a non-neutral jury. It’s a complete waste of time. The voting public are the jury, not the Senators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 22 hours ago, sidcow said: What are these criminal and civil charges he can apparently face? Something actually serious, incitement to murder? Can a man with serious convictions run for president? To get away with what he did is a shocking reflection on American politics. I can't believe that enough Republicans didn't have the moral fibre to do the right thing. There are several states that are currently going after litigating Trump. 1) New York is going after Trump's tax situation, embezzlement and using state funds to pay family members (see Kushner, Ivanka etc) 2) Georgia is going after Trump for pressuring Raffensberger on 'that' phonecall. The fact that DT mentioned a specific number confirms that he was looking for votes that weren't there. If he'd said "I think your count is wrong, please count again, here's my evidence" he could not be convicted. He's likely to be tried for several breaches of Georgia state law. 3) Pennsylvania is reportedly going after Trump for libel, much in the same way as Smartmatic and Dominion will. The effect of this is that Trump will likely be in courts for the next years, with extreme scrutiny on his cashflow and personal wealth situation. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAuthority Posted February 15, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 15, 2021 7 hours ago, magnkarl said: The effect of this is that Trump will likely be in courts for the next years, with extreme scrutiny on his cashflow and personal wealth situation. Good job he has a bunch of dumb minions who will keep contributing to his coffers with donations 'cause MAGA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 13/02/2021 at 17:11, Genie said: So he can be banged to rights guilty, then the majority of those hearing the case say he’s guilty... but still isn’t convicted. I think I can see a bit of an issue. Or about 7/12 jurors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 Part of the comms office out on his arse after threatening to "destroy" a reporter. Not fired, but initially suspended and then had to resign due to the resulting firestorm over the open hypocrisy of this decision. The Lincoln project going down in flames due to financial irregularities, workplace abuse and sexual things including the word peado... Saint Coumo of NY in dire straights after it has been revealed that he has been actively trying to cover up his decision to send sick covid patients to old folks homes, resulting in thousands of deaths last March. The trial of the wicked "Whitmer kidnap plot" group has been pushed back 7 months as the defense requested, and were granted, extra time to review the evidence, including the fun info that one of the group leaders was an FBI informant. Happy president's day holiday all (where all means, bankers & politicians). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 14/02/2021 at 09:47, Genie said: Yes, that’s the problem I assumed to. No point in having a trial with a non-neutral jury. It’s a complete waste of time. I wonder if it had been a secret vote whether there would’ve been more guilty votes. We know there is a lot of partisan votes but I wonder how many voted not because of the partisan element but because they have no spine in a publicly shown vote. A secret vote could’ve given them deniability but still actually voted guilty. Expecting another ten votes might have been a stretch but there are certainly contenders for this. Additionally some of the ambitious ones could’ve taken the chance to eliminate Trump from 2024 primary candidacy because if found guilty then of the further simple majority disqualification vote, which would leave the primary wide open (not that I think Trump will be running in 2024 anyway). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 16, 2021 8 hours ago, nick76 said: I wonder if it had been a secret vote whether there would’ve been more guilty votes. We know there is a lot of partisan votes but I wonder how many voted not because of the partisan element but because they have no spine in a publicly shown vote. A secret vote could’ve given them deniability but still actually voted guilty. Expecting another ten votes might have been a stretch but there are certainly contenders for this. Additionally some of the ambitious ones could’ve taken the chance to eliminate Trump from 2024 primary candidacy because if found guilty then of the further simple majority disqualification vote, which would leave the primary wide open (not that I think Trump will be running in 2024 anyway). I would put my mortgage on it that if it was a totally secret ballot it would have easily found him guilty. There is already a witch hunt for those who voted against him, I'm sure many jus looked after themselves on this. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 Secret votes are not particularly great for democratically elected officials If constituents disagreed with any Senators who voted against the impeachment they are able to register their displeasure at the ballot box, but not if they don't even know which way their representative voted on an issue. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: Secret votes are not particularly great for democratically elected officials If constituents disagreed with any Senators who voted against the impeachment they are able to register their displeasure at the ballot box, but not if they don't even know which way their representative voted on an issue. I completely agree, but I'm not sure that anyone's seriously suggesting that. I assume what people are trying to get at, without using the words, is that this is a classic example of a 'collective action problem'. Individual senators may personally feel that it is in their interests for Trump not to be able to run again so they can have a clearer path to nomination, but if they individually vote to bring that about it reduces their likelihood of being nominated (because of infuriating primary voters). I think this is probably right to some extent, and so I think it was always likely that either the vote would be something like 95-5 to convict, or the vastly more likely outcome which actually happened of nearly all of them finding some reason or other not to convict. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, sidcow said: I would put my mortgage on it that if it was a totally secret ballot it would have easily found him guilty. There is already a witch hunt for those who voted against him, I'm sure many jus looked after themselves on this. House members already getting it. I read the other day the letter to Adam Kinzinger from some of his family members basically disowning him and weird stuff about some Fox News celebs. It was embarrassing to read but it’s the craziness in America at the moment, I thought I had some wacky extended family members but to have a letter sent to me from them, signed by many different parts of my extended family is on another level. I can’t find the link to the letter but I think it stemmed from NY Times article or some other like that. Edited February 16, 2021 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted February 16, 2021 Share Posted February 16, 2021 The craziness in the GOP runs from the grassroots up. It’s quit tragic really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted February 17, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted February 17, 2021 (edited) And so it begins, Trump starting to control GOP from the sidelines, assassinate McConnell and keep his agenda at the forefront. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56092781 Quote Trump attacks "dour" leader Mitch McConnell Former President Donald Trump has launched a scathing personal attack on fellow Republican Mitch McConnell. "Mitch is a dour, sullen, and unsmiling political hack," said Mr Trump, "and if Republican Senators are going to stay with him, they will not win again." His statement came after Mr McConnell said the former president was "morally responsible" for the US Capitol riots. The exchange exposed an apparent rift between the two over the future of the Republican party. Quote Mr Trump also took aim at Mr McConnell's stated intentions to stand in the way of future Trump-backed candidates. The former president said he would back Republican primary challengers who "espouse Making America Great Again and our policy of America First". Mr McConnell "will never do what needs to be done, or what is right for our Country," said Mr Trump. Edited February 17, 2021 by sidcow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted February 17, 2021 Share Posted February 17, 2021 The 'optimistic' hope/scenario here is that Republicans spend the next two years in an absurd fight, with genuinely extremely conservative candidates having to run even further to the right to defend themselves in primaries from pure nutters of the Todd Akin/Christine O'Donnell/Roy Moore variety who are so toxic that some of them lose winnable races and they end up wasting some of their massive advantage in Senate malapportionment and district gerrymandering. Not very optimistic mind you, but you take what you can get in American politics. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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