U.S. Politics

[Sam-AVFC]

30 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

the transcript has been released   ..... i've seen "nothing wrong and proves no pressure was put " to " it's how a mafia boss would talk" 

if they didn't impeach the serial adulterer lair I can't  see them being able to impeach over this   .... but nothing in politics surprises me nowadays

But they did hold impeachment proceedings against Clinton.

[StefanAVFC]

15 minutes ago, Chindie said:

Isn't a transcript. It's a memo compiled from staffers who have heard the conversations' recollection of it - which is a nice way of cynically obscuring it.

The context makes it dodgy as **** - he is basically asking for a favour after he's been so good to them...

House committee have requested full whistleblower complaint.

[Keyblade]

Can't they just release the audio? Surely it was recorded.

[bickster]

54 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

Can't they just release the audio? Surely it was recorded.

He was probably on his burner

[bickster]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

But they did hold impeachment proceedings against Clinton.

He was indeed impeached, he was, however found not guilty, with some Republicans also finding him not guilty

Impeach doesn't mean to remove from office, it means to call into question or charge someone with misconduct, the term implies no guilt

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

It needs 67 % in the 2nd vote anyway,  they are not going to get him on a phone call.  Do the Democrats really think history will show him all destroyed and out the White House over a "he said they said" phone call. It's going nowhere as far as i can see and I think they know it,  even CNN is not jumping around.  Clinton still got off even after denying it.

(Also : Impeached,  I keep thinking of "James and the Giant Peach"every time I hear it)

Edited September 25, 2019 by Amsterdam_Neil_D

[bickster]

11 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Clinton still got off even after denying it

He did lose his lawyers licence for 5 whole years

[Amsterdam_Neil_D]

3 minutes ago, bickster said:

15 minutes ago, Amsterdam_Neil_D said:

Clinton still got off even after denying it

He did lose his lawyers licence for 5 whole years

Imagine if he kept it and started out again like Better Call Clinton .  

Or a country and Western singer,  I will give him the first line ...."My life has gone for a Burton ,  I shoulda wiped it on the curtain oh yeah"

[A'Villan]

Saw the news of impeachment briefly on the discussion panel of an ABC current affairs program. Haven't got up to date with it so can't really comment anything of worth..

But my initial and uneducated impression is that there will be a loophole somewhere along the line of discussion that means he will not face the full consequences.

And it will be because it is "In the best interests of the American people".

[A'Villan]

I'm not sure I believe change for the greater good is going to come from within the system. Why? The problem with always being a conformist is this..

When you are trying to change the system from within, it's usually not YOU WHO CHANGES the system eventually, it's the system that eventually CHANGES WHO YOU are.

The use of the term "democracy" these days is pure propaganda. We live in times of racism, right-wing conservatism and capitalism.

It's the rich telling the middle class to blame the poor. That goes for those within the borders but especially those from outside.

What's the issue with millions of people within 3rd world countries suffering everyday, unthinkable atrocities, as long as they are 'stupid' enough to allow ours to profit?

In direct democracy back in Athens, if the population was the equivalent of the USA, 3 million people would make up the senate and house of representatives.

Now before people jump down my throat about mentioning Athens, please just read the following, I'm nearly done..

The powers bestowed congress are exclusive to 0.0001 of America's population, whereas if it were the equivalent of Athenian direct democracy, just under 1% of the population.

You tell me if someone who you've never met before has the ability to represent you and your unique circumstances when discussing the greater good of the people?

I've got 100 people in my network of friends and acquaintances easily, but I don't have any politicians. By definition democracy is power of the people, not power of businesses.

Billion dollar companies (in Australia anyway) pay less than 1% of their income in tax, an individual on 80k pays 30% of theirs in tax.

In private enterprise or capitalism we should all know enough to see that a few people control great sums of money, and great sums of people control few money.

I won't even get into how philanthropy works in such a system..

Capitalism and democracy are not synonymous, as I keep saying. You tell me which one of the two governs our system.

[Sam-AVFC]

8 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Saw the news of impeachment briefly on the discussion panel of an ABC current affairs program. Haven't got up to date with it so can't really comment anything of worth..

But my initial and uneducated impression is that there will be a loophole somewhere along the line of discussion that means he will not face the full consequences.

And it will be because it is "In the best interests of the American people".

The 'loophole' is that the Republican Senate would have to vote to impeach him. Not gunna happen.

Matt Gaetz was even on TV Yesterday admitting a group of Republicans had already been to the White House so they could be briefed on what would be released and to get their talking points straight.

[LondonLax]

14 hours ago, A'Villan said:

Saw the news of impeachment briefly on the discussion panel of an ABC current affairs program. Haven't got up to date with it so can't really comment anything of worth..

But my initial and uneducated impression is that there will be a loophole somewhere along the line of discussion that means he will not face the full consequences.

And it will be because it is "In the best interests of the American people".

You don’t need ‘loopholes’ anymore.

These days you can just argue that ‘black is not black but is in fact white’ and enough people will support you that you can’t be touched. 

[Johnnyp]

Excuse my ignorance, not massively into politics as a whole. Why does Trump ask a foreign leader to investigate his political rival ? Wouldn't he have intelligence and info from people much closer to home than Ukraine ?

[bickster]

34 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

Excuse my ignorance, not massively into politics as a whole. Why does Trump ask a foreign leader to investigate his political rival ? Wouldn't he have intelligence and info from people much closer to home than Ukraine ?

He can't order the CIA to investigate someone purely for his own political purposes, if that got out... well under normal circumstances he'd be toast but these aren't normal times. The Intelligence Services would probably refuse anyway. The FBI and CIA already know he's a criminal, they are unlikely to want to help him apart from at the very highest level. He doesn't trust them and they don't trust him. Even at the higher levels people might baulk at actually breaking the law on his behalf.

EDIT: As if to prove my point, the whistleblower is apparently a CIA Analyst who was for a time detailed to the White House Staff. He worked in the field of foreign policy towards Europe and clearly had an understanding of the laws the President was breaking.

[bickster]

Timeline of the Ukraine Saga so far

 

[HanoiVillan]

This . . . actually seems to be going somewhere.

[KentVillan]

On 25/09/2019 at 17:32, tonyh29 said:

the transcript has been released   ..... i've seen "nothing wrong and proves no pressure was put " to " it's how a mafia boss would talk" 

if they didn't impeach the serial adulterer lair I can't  see them being able to impeach over this   .... but nothing in politics surprises me nowadays

Besides the point others have raised that Clinton was impeached, you seem to be suggesting that serial adultery is a more serious matter for a US President than asking a foreign government to dig up kompromat on political rivals?

[tonyh29]

On 25/09/2019 at 18:04, Sam-AVFC said:

But they did hold impeachment proceedings against Clinton.

yeah bit of a brain freeze moment , i meant they didn't find  him "guilty" or whatever you call the outcome of an impeachment  even though he was bang to rights  , so it's unlikely they'd get a conviction on Trump

[Chindie]

8 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

This . . . actually seems to be going somewhere.

It won't.

[HanoiVillan]

3 hours ago, Chindie said:

It won't.

I mean, we're not defining terms here. It remains comparatively unlikely that this leads to a vote in the Senate that results in impeachment. That has actually never happened in US history, and it remains more likely than not that it won't happen now. However, there are a lot of consequences that could happen short of that, including the destruction of Biden in the primary, or the defeat of a wounded Trump in the general.