bickster Posted August 27, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 27, 2019 1 minute ago, OutByEaster? said: Money isn't mutually exclusive. Not sure I understand Scott? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A'Villan Posted August 27, 2019 Share Posted August 27, 2019 13 minutes ago, bickster said: Not sure I understand Scott? Mo' money, mo' problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 14 hours ago, bickster said: You realise that mutually exclusive threats to democracy can occur simultaneously? The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that Zooooooom.... My point being that we've spent so, so much time discussing how the evil, nasty, sneaky, untrustworthy, commie, Russians are destroying our precious democracy. All the while, those with money can do what they please in the dark. But, yes. Look over there... Russians! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, villakram said: Zooooooom.... My point being that we've spent so, so much time discussing how the evil, nasty, sneaky, untrustworthy, commie, Russians are destroying our precious democracy. All the while, those with money can do what they please in the dark. But, yes. Look over there... Russians! No, you've spend your time criticising anyone who mentions the Russians, the rest of us know the threat comes from multiple directions Again you think it's a distraction. It absolutely isn't. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, villakram said: commie, Russians In what world are Putin's regime, its acolytes and minions 'commie'? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 hours ago, snowychap said: In what world are Putin's regime, its acolytes and minions 'commie'? I happen to live in the US, and the commie trope is simply that. Are you saying you do not believe in the existence of reds under your bed? Watch how the republican and neo-lib types will label or elude to any desire to change the current wealth distribution system as socialist == communist, hence Sanders/Warren etc. are Stalin re-incarnate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, villakram said: I happen to live in the US, and the commie trope is simply that. This thread and the vast majority of people commenting in it are not 'in the US'. As such, frequent references to 'reds under the bed' tropes is rather silly especially in response to people whose mentions of Russia make absolutely no such allusion (either explicit or implicit). When you chuck it in to the conversation, it is usually part of a push to pooh-pooh any criticism of Russia or to underpin your own criticism of anyone who may mention Russia as an issue. It appears, at best, to be diversionary - ironic given the content of your second sentence. Edited August 28, 2019 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 3 hours ago, villakram said: I happen to live in the US, and the commie trope is simply that. ... Watch how the republican and neo-lib types will label or elude to any desire to change the current wealth distribution system as socialist == communist, hence Sanders/Warren etc. are Stalin re-incarnate. 2 hours ago, snowychap said: This thread and the vast majority of people commenting in it are not 'in the US'. ..whose mentions of Russia make absolutely no such allusion (either explicit or implicit). Divided by a common language. I think both the above quotes seem right, to me. In the US, the old commie trope is indeed just that. It's not the case for UK posters, though. We don't remotely see Warren or whoever as "Commie". Not even Corbyn is seen that way, here. Our (I think) UK references to Putin are as a Kleptocrat, an asset grabbing, opponent "neutralising", deeply corrupt leader who's interest is not communism, but power and influence and a nationalism and tactical approach that favours disrupting anyone or anything that night hamper his ability to continue his self enriching reign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, blandy said: Divided by a common language. I think both the above quotes seem right, to me. In the US, the old commie trope is indeed just that. It's not the case for UK posters, though. We don't remotely see Warren or whoever as "Commie". Not even Corbyn is seen that way, here. Our (I think) UK references to Putin are as a Kleptocrat, an asset grabbing, opponent "neutralising", deeply corrupt leader who's interest is not communism, but power and influence and a nationalism and tactical approach that favours disrupting anyone or anything that night hamper his ability to continue his self enriching reign. Pretty much the same as the Koch's et al but more visible 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, blandy said: Divided by a common language. I don't believe villakram is an American. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, snowychap said: I don't believe villakram is an American. Fair point, but he speaks (as I read it) like someone who's lived there a good while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, bickster said: but more visible And with the whole state killing and "disappearing" and judicial apparatus at his disposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 Just now, blandy said: And with the whole state killing and "disappearing" and judicial apparatus at his disposal. Well yes, that as well. Different tools, same endgame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 minute ago, blandy said: Fair point, but he speaks (as I read it) like someone who's lived there a good while. So what. He's commenting in a thread using a trope (not for the first time) that doesn't apply regardless of whether it may or may not be a live line in US political discourse. This isn't a thread, I hope, merely for regurgitating irrelevant and daft US political lines of argument as though they represent a valid point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 26 minutes ago, snowychap said: So what. He's commenting in a thread using a trope (not for the first time) that doesn't apply regardless of whether it may or may not be a live line in US political discourse. This isn't a thread, I hope, merely for regurgitating irrelevant and daft US political lines of argument as though they represent a valid point of view. Errr, ya... tis just an obvious stereo-typical trope, e.g., I am currently back over on this side of the pond for a few weeks and my work colleagues were wondering if I'd be ok for medical insurance etc. while here and I laughed and said "of course, I'm heading to commie Europe"... they all laughed and clearly understood my meaning as this trope is so ingrained in American culture. Just watch the upcoming election season where large scale efforts to re-enforce socialist == communist are underway. My basic point is that it has been an absolute cesspit in the US since Citizens United and record amounts of money have been spent in each election since then (Obama & Clinton both broke records). The data clearly show how the neo-lib dream has enriched the most wealthy with broader society in a borderline broken state. I'm not some pro-Russian clown. But I find it deeply annoying to see the focus on them as the problem. Sure they ain't nice, but we have done or allowed this to be done to ourselves. Of course, an external enemy is much more comforting than looking in the mirror. Hence, look at the nasty things the Russians are doing, look at what the Chinese are doing. Oh, those nasty GAIA destroying Brazilians etc. Yes, there are legitimate issues in each of those areas, but why are they being discussed as the primary issue of importance? Oh, right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NurembergVillan Posted August 28, 2019 Moderator Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, villakram said: Errr, ya... tis just an obvious stereo-typical trope, e.g., I am currently back over on this side of the pond for a few weeks and my work colleagues were wondering if I'd be ok for medical insurance etc. while here and I laughed and said "of course, I'm heading to commie Europe"... they all laughed and clearly understood my meaning as this trope is so ingrained in American culture. Just watch the upcoming election season where large scale efforts to re-enforce socialist == communist are underway. My basic point is that it has been an absolute cesspit in the US since Citizens United and record amounts of money have been spent in each election since then (Obama & Clinton both broke records). The data clearly show how the neo-lib dream has enriched the most wealthy with broader society in a borderline broken state. And the point of that is? How does any of the above refute the idea that the silly 'reds under the bed' shite has limited, at best, relevance to this thread? Quote I'm not some pro-Russian clown. But I find it deeply annoying to see the focus on them as the problem. Sure they ain't nice, but we have done or allowed this to be done to ourselves. Of course, an external enemy is much more comforting than looking in the mirror. Hence, look at the nasty things the Russians are doing, look at what the Chinese are doing. Oh, those nasty GAIA destroying Brazilians etc. Yes, there are legitimate issues in each of those areas, but why are they being discussed as the primary issue of importance? Oh, righ What utter crap. People aren't 'focussing upon them as the problem' - people are talking about them as a problem. Perhaps people in this thread find it 'deeply annoying' that they have to counter the kind of crap about ' commie Russians'/'reds under the bed' that you routinely roll out in response to their concerns? 'Oh, right'. Edited August 28, 2019 by snowychap 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 4 hours ago, blandy said: as "Commie". Not even Corbyn is seen that way, here. Newsnight say Hello 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 Trump just sent his Gestapo to Boston's Children's Hospital to inform Mexican children receiving care for Cistic Fibrosis and cancer that they have 33 days to get out of the country. It's beyond belief. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted August 29, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted August 29, 2019 Ruth Bader Ginsburg has been treated for pancreatic cancer. Pancreatic cancer is one of the most fatal forms of cancer, and although she's survived it before, given her age, and frailty, Trump's getting another Supreme Court nomination. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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