Media and punditry

[dounavilla]

4 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Glen Hoddle is useless full stop. 

Depends on the situation.

[Dr_Pangloss]

15 hours ago, mikeyp102 said:

Glen Hoddle is useless full stop. 

Karma for what he did in a past life.

[Troglodyte]

23 hours ago, dounavilla said:

Depends on the situation.

True - he'd make a good doorstop.

[rodders0223]

Glenn Hoddle is either an absolute footballing genius, that sees phases of play, patterns and movement that us mere mortals couldn't even imagine (which may be the case, he has played at a higher level and was an incredibly gifted player)

Though I suspect, that despite this, he is in fact an absolute raving mentalist. The amount of times I watch a pedestrian England side struggling to show any kind of movement or cutting edge. 20 minutes of turgid, easy passes across the back four out to the fullback, then back again, then out to the fullback, then back again, then into Henderson, then back to the fullback, then back to Henderson, then back to Cahill, then switched to the other fullback, then back to Henderson, then back to the goalkeeper, then out to the fullback.

Hoddle " This is glorious football, great movement there, just dictating the tempo, it's great passing and composure it really is"

The guy is a **** loon, and I am amazed he still gets a job and every man and his dog were screaming for him to be given the England job after Roy.

[villa4europe]

i think andy townsend was the same, its like ITV have an everything is awesome agenda with england but the masses have moved on and arent buying it anymore so im not sure why they do it, its almost like a job reference where they're not allowed to say anything negative

can remember watching england years ago on ITV and rooney from about 30 yards out shanked one so horribly high and wide that a sunday leaguer would have been laughed at for doing it and townsend in commentary said something like "well you can see what he's trying to do and its a great idea" 

[Zatman]

13 minutes ago, rodders0223 said:

Glenn Hoddle is either an absolute footballing genius, that sees phases of play, patterns and movement that us mere mortals couldn't even imagine (which may be the case, he has played at a higher level and was an incredibly gifted player)

 

Everybody in the media raves about him like he is a footballing messiah. He was dreadful to average manager at most of his clubs, never won a trophy and hasnt managed in 12 years

[fightoffyour]

7 hours ago, rodders0223 said:

20 minutes of turgid, easy passes across the back four out to the fullback, then back again, then out to the fullback, then back again, then into Henderson, then back to the fullback, then back to Henderson, then back to Cahill, then switched to the other fullback, then back to Henderson, then back to the goalkeeper, then out to the fullback.

[TheAuthority]

Hoddle was a glorious player. Feel lucky I got to see him a couple of times.

Terrible manager though, at every club. He even fluked that England run at France '98 as we had some great players in the team. It's a shame that Venables had to resign after Euro '96 because of his dodgy dealings.

[Mark Albrighton]

4 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

Hoddle was a glorious player. Feel lucky I got to see him a couple of times.

Terrible manager though, at every club. He even fluked that England run at France '98 as we had some great players in the team. It's a shame that Venables had to resign after Euro '96 because of his dodgy dealings.

I think El Tel was overrated.

[villa4europe]

el tel was probably what an international manager should be, bit of a character, install confidence, dont try and overcoach them, get them all buzzing and send them out to do their job, when you then throw in the home tournament and atmosphere and you get the holland game, the type of manager we needed for the 00s teams

can remember wolves fans in the office talking about hoddles training methods, apparently stopping the players constantly so they could all stand round and watch him put 60 yard balls on a sixpence "this is how you do it" coaching

[Zatman]

 

[villa4europe]

 

[Xela]

Collymore going for Ian Wright's jugular

NSFW

Spoiler

 

 

[mikeyp102]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

Collymore going for Ian Wright's jugular

NSFW

  Hide contents

 

 

What’s the meaning of aTOM? Never heard of that expression.

I’ve just read the article that has started it all, and in a way I can what Collymore is saying. But I don’t think Sol Campbell is the best example to back up his argument. From what I’ve read previously Sol doesn’t apply for jobs in the lower leagues, he think she had an entitlement to work in the premier league and expects to be offered one straight away just because of who he is. 

[rodders0223]

4 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

What’s the meaning of aTOM? Never heard of that expression.

I’ve just read the article that has started it all, and in a way I can what Collymore is saying. But I don’t think Sol Campbell is the best example to back up his argument. From what I’ve read previously Sol doesn’t apply for jobs in the lower leagues, he think she had an entitlement to work in the premier league and expects to be offered one straight away just because of who he is. 

Uncle Tom.

[villa4europe]

its a famous book about slavery called uncle toms cabin, i think its various stories about a black slave called uncle tom

in modern day terms an "uncle tom" is like a black man accepting the second class citizen role 

[HanoiVillan]

1 hour ago, villa4europe said:

its a famous book about slavery called uncle toms cabin, i think its various stories about a black slave called uncle tom

in modern day terms an "uncle tom" is like a black man accepting the second class citizen role 

Yes this is right, although there is an additional implication, which I think is the heart of Collymore's comment here, which is that the 'Tom' has so aligned themselves with their oppressor's interests that they act against the interest of their race (this appears to be Collymore's complaint, ie that by accepting roles with every broadcaster Wright has occupied the entire market in black punditry, and that by aligning himself with the Sun he is aligning himself with their problematic racial politics). It's an extremely strong criticism to make, basically an accusation of being a 'race traitor'. 

The historical context of 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' is that it was the second-best-selling book of the 19th century, after only the Bible, and was a key foundational text in the Abolitionist movement. The character of 'Uncle Tom' in the book isn't really like the insult; in fact, he helps three female runaway slaves to escape. 

[TheAuthority]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

The historical context of 'Uncle Tom's Cabin' is that it was the second-best-selling book of the 19th century, after only the Bible, and was a key foundational text in the Abolitionist movement. The character of 'Uncle Tom' in the book isn't really like the insult; in fact, he helps three female runaway slaves to escape. 

It's interesting that the slur is now means "race traitor."  It has morphed completely from the character in the book "Uncle Tom" who actually refuses to beat other slaves at the behest of his "ma'sser" 

Weird how that has changed to be the opposite of what it originally was.

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, TheAuthority said:

It's interesting that the slur is now means "race traitor."  It has morphed completely from the character in the book "Uncle Tom" who actually refuses to beat other slaves at the behest of his "ma'sser" 

Weird how that has changed to be the opposite of what it originally was.

As I understand it, what happened essentially was that the book, because it was so popular, became a kind of cultural archetype, and there were hundreds of derivative knock-off plays and novels featuring the same characters. A majority of those took a pro-slavery point of view and ridiculed the character of 'Uncle Tom'. Must be strange, as an author, how characters that come from your head go out of your control once they enter the wider cultural consciousness. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by HanoiVillan

[Dr_Pangloss]

On 07/06/2018 at 04:31, TheAuthority said:

Hoddle was a glorious player. Feel lucky I got to see him a couple of times.

Terrible manager though, at every club. He even fluked that England run at France '98 as we had some great players in the team. It's a shame that Venables had to resign after Euro '96 because of his dodgy dealings.

He started well. Did a great job at Swindon, wasn't exactly bad at Chelsea either. I also thought he was doing a pretty good job for England and was unlucky at France 98. In fact he also did a great job at Southampton after the England role.  Pretty much down hill from there. He never had the people skills and they seemed to get even worse over time.