TRO Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) That suggests the experience we have been going through this season is a common event, and those wise old moderators can just look at all the times it's happened in the past and reassure us all it's going well. I'm not sure how old you are but it's certainly the first time since I've been following Villa where we haven't gone down the '3 years then bust' model. I see us trying to achieve something genuinely different here. So no I'm not a 'wise old moderator' and I'm not even sure what being a moderator has to do with it. I'm commenting on what I can see. I see us improving. I see us doing so after a terrible start to the season and I see us doing it with signings who were almost exclusively youth that was cherry-picked from the lower levels. I believe; and have said so in the past; that Lambert is doing the 'Dortmund model' of taking young talent from the lower levels and turning it into stars rather than buying stars. It has an inherent risk to it (as we can see) and we've started it from a much weaker position than Dortmund usually do and we're still not sure it will work. But that's what I see happening. Probably partly necessitated by Lerner's M.O. of reduced spending and partly influenced by Lambert's Dortmund days and his coaching and badges achieved in Germany. But if you read the posts I've made since posting the league table you'll see that the table is only an appendix to the main crux of my point which is that this group of talented but inexperienced players are getting better simply by playing and getting that experience. The thing is any club that doesn't want to pay the going rate for fees or wages - comes up with some'long term plan spiel' - the reality is, with one or two exceptions, you get what you pay for. Sure every clubs picks up the odd diamond for a song, the odd starlet comes through the ranks - but these should be viewed as 'bonus' players not the whole strategy. Biggest concern for me is chairman is hardly ever here - whatever his excuses, thats not healthy, watching MOTD at the weekend - numerous other chairman were there to support there clubs. When was Randy last at a game ? October\November ? - Much as we wish it weren't true - the overwhelming evidence is that Lerner has lost interest, he is no longer prepared to invest time - let alone money in Aston Villa, Until that changes, were a Nottingham Forest, Leicester type. That suggests the experience we have been going through this season is a common event, and those wise old moderators can just look at all the times it's happened in the past and reassure us all it's going well. I'm not sure how old you are but it's certainly the first time since I've been following Villa where we haven't gone down the '3 years then bust' model. I see us trying to achieve something genuinely different here. So no I'm not a 'wise old moderator' and I'm not even sure what being a moderator has to do with it. I'm commenting on what I can see. I see us improving. I see us doing so after a terrible start to the season and I see us doing it with signings who were almost exclusively youth that was cherry-picked from the lower levels. I believe; and have said so in the past; that Lambert is doing the 'Dortmund model' of taking young talent from the lower levels and turning it into stars rather than buying stars. It has an inherent risk to it (as we can see) and we've started it from a much weaker position than Dortmund usually do and we're still not sure it will work. But that's what I see happening. Probably partly necessitated by Lerner's M.O. of reduced spending and partly influenced by Lambert's Dortmund days and his coaching and badges achieved in Germany. But if you read the posts I've made since posting the league table you'll see that the table is only an appendix to the main crux of my point which is that this group of talented but inexperienced players are getting better simply by playing and getting that experience. The thing is any club that doesn't want to pay the going rate for fees or wages - comes up with some'long term plan spiel' - the reality is, with one or two exceptions, you get what you pay for. Sure every clubs picks up the odd diamond for a song, the odd starlet comes through the ranks - but these should be viewed as 'bonus' players not the whole strategy. Biggest concern for me is chairman is hardly ever here - whatever his excuses, thats not healthy, watching MOTD at the weekend - numerous other chairman were there to support there clubs. When was Randy last at a game ? October\November ? - Much as we wish it weren't true - the overwhelming evidence is that Lerner has lost interest, he is no longer prepared to invest time - let alone money in Aston Villa, Until that changes, were a Nottingham Forest, Leicester type. But the simple fact is we have never had any success spending decent sums of money, even when we have had it. All the best players we have had in the last 30 years have( in the main) been for modest sums of money. The likes of Benteke has to become the rule not the exception. What Lambert is doing(In the transfer market) in principle I'm in agreement with, But the personnel not so sure. When Saunders built his team they had resolve and power...their first task was don't concede. This team leaks goals like a sieve, I don't struggle to see any real overall progress when you leak goals like we do.... sure we have moments when offensively we have improved, but its not enough in the great scheme of things....WE HAVE TO TIGHTEN UP. Edited April 22, 2013 by TRO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Mancini would be forgiven for thinking in the first half a scottish old pals act was being played out. Sure RVP was on fire, but as the old saying goes they all are if you let them be... we were awful. lightweight and wimpy. didn't see West ham play so naively against them. Too much sometimes is said about these great players like RVP...in the sense of give them the freedom..... ps Did anyone ever see a youth/ second team player David Evans close down The great Johan Cryuff....Aston Villa v Ajax @ Villa Park....Cryuff hardly had a kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bunnski Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 chelsea play us the week before the uefa cup final so heres hoping they beat basle and have their eyes on that final when they play us. wigan have been playing well and not getting results. their luck will change soon if they keep playing like that. its all on us to put the points on the board and not give them a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Right, now tonights game has gone, we can now concentrate on the games that will save our season starting with Sunderland. Forget tonight, the real game is next monday. Edited April 22, 2013 by MagicMushroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8pints Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Yeah I think the Sunderland and Norwich game will be the keys to us staying up. If we beat Sunderland next week and Wigan lose to Spurs it could very well start to turn, after all the furore, in to a bottom three adrift from the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSV Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 can we beat a rejuvenated Sunderland?? They looked good on the weekend. Draw is best we can get i think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I agree with the call for hawk eye to be in charge of offside decisions... has to be much better than the current set up which consists of officials with "red eye" To be fair a 3-0 defeat was about as good as we could have hoped for at OT last night considering the 14 v 11 scenario with the officials. Especially with going 1 down so early it could easily have been another Chelsea... So now to the Sunderland game.. our season now depends on this game it is a must win.. lose & we are down in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 23, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 23, 2013 Mancini would be forgiven for thinking in the first half a scottish old pals act was being played out. Sure RVP was on fire, but as the old saying goes they all are if you let them be... we were awful. lightweight and wimpy. didn't see West ham play so naively against them. Too much sometimes is said about these great players like RVP...in the sense of give them the freedom..... ps Did anyone ever see a youth/ second team player David Evans close down The great Johan Cryuff....Aston Villa v Ajax @ Villa Park....Cryuff hardly had a kick. The thing is, we've (nearly) always been like this against united, or at least for the past 15 years or so. Sure we have the odd game where we do well, but the vast majority of the times we play them 2 things happen. We appear to roll over and United step up a gear. They love playing us. It's not isolated to this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mykeyb Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 If I was a Wigan fan I would be expecting the worst they have some tough games and with the fixture congestion combined with the cup final on the horizon with being 3 points behind. I have no doubt we will need to not lose the last game at Wigan to stay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R.Bear Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) We must be the unluckiest team in the league. We play everyone at the worst times. We play Reading after their little run of good results, QPR the same, United away when they win the title and now Sunderland, a team who have been shite all season and their only positivity has been the last two games. We would have easily beaten MONs sorry excuse of a team. Yesterday made absolutely no difference the fight. Spurs should beat Wigan, we should beat or draw with Sunderland. As long as we keep that 4 point buffer, it is ok. A draw against Sunderland is no disaster if Spurs beat Wigan. I dont think it will come down to the last game. I think Wigan will be down and we will finish higher than 17th. Edited April 23, 2013 by R.Bear 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Not necessarily unlucky 'R.Bear' when you consider we have been poor for most of the season which is reflected in our current position. The golfer Gary Player once said 'the more i practice the luckier i get.' I am hoping that for our remaining games we can say 'the more games we win the luckier we get.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaForever1970 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Still in our own hands.However, if its down to the last game we will go down.Anyone explain why Stoke and Sunderland are suddenly safe after ONE win? We wont be safe after another win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR_Black_AVFC Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Still in our own hands. However, if its down to the last game we will go down. Anyone explain why Stoke and Sunderland are suddenly safe after ONE win? We wont be safe after another win. As it stands, Wigan Reading and QPR are the only teams who are not safe - we are - at this moment in time. No-one expected us to win last night. Man Utd were rampant in the first half, yet took their foot off the gas in the second half which gave us some breathing space. At least our confidence wasn't totally demolished, but as I said the other day - I do not take any game as a given. Sunderland and Norwich looked winnable a few weeks ago, but not so much now. Our goal difference could be our downfall if Wigan win their game in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markavfc40 Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) The facts don't lie. We are one of the worst teams in the league. However despite that fact we still find ourselves outside of the bottom 3 with just 4 games to go. Add to that 3 of those remaining 4 games are against other teams of a similar level to us, all within 4 points either ahead or behind us, then I remain confident we will stay up. We are capable of beating Sunderland who despite their last 2 results are a poor side, Norwich who we have already beaten at Carrow Road this season and Wigan who as things stand are below us. I also wouldn't rule out us getting a result at home against Chelsea. As fans I think it's important we have a positive attitude. That definitely needs to be the case for those of us who will be attending the remaining games. Also with that in mind it is really important that as many fans as possible get themselves down to Villa Park on Monday night and get right behind the players and do their bit in ensuring we get the three points we desperately need. Edited April 23, 2013 by markavfc40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AValon Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Last night pretty much came up to expectations. Undone by a flying Dutchman and a geriatric Welsh wizard. It was poor, to put it mildly, but I doubt many teams would have lived with them in their celebratory mood. I just wished Tekkers had slotted home that first half chance, just to rattle their nerves a bit.But, after all that, I don't see as it changes things much. We still have to beat Sunderland and Norwich, then chance to fate that Wigans luck has finally run out. In fact, the Sunderland game looks so important right now...to both teams and its vital we don't drop points. For what its worth, I don't believe we will, but we really do have to be on top of our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaCas Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 There has been some debate on this and the PL thread about current form and whether we are progressing or not. It's a quiet day today so I took a look at the points return (averaged over five games) for last season and for this. If you look at McLeish's season (on the left) you can see that the trend was downwards and getting worse. Looking at this season, you can see that the trend is upwards and getting better. In fact, this season there are two distinct upward trends - good progress initially, a disasterous Christmas period and then another period of progress since the Swansea game. Lambert has made some mistakes as all managers do but the trends show that he is taking us in the right direction. If the trend this season was downwards I would agree with all the haters on here that Lambert is not the right man but I am seeing progress - I also admire the way that he is doing it with young players and trying to play attractive football. We need six points from the next four games - ideally from the next two, and then we can look forward to a happier time next season 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabby Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Sunderlands form will make them favorites now to beat us and that may help us ,they have had no real pressure last 3 games and were not expected to win them.Let see how they cope.Important we score first and keep crown onside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) The fans really need to wind Di Canio up Monday night I think if we can go in at half time in the lead he will explode at half time which will benefit us massively Edited April 23, 2013 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 As it stands I hope 34 points is enough as I cant see us getting any more points this season. So depressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMushroom Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 can we beat a rejuvenated Sunderland?? They looked good on the weekend. Draw is best we can get i think One thing is for sure, that game will tell us a lot about how much progress we have made. It will tell us all we need to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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