BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 There would be a play-off match at a neutral venue if all things were equal...might get a trip to Wembley after all!! Sauce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 Ah, wiki says playoff. That's good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacbuddies Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 There would be a play-off match at a neutral venue if all things were equal...might get a trip to Wembley after all!! Sauce? What flavour sauce? I like BBQ sauce but it depends what the food is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 There would be a play-off match at a neutral venue if all things were equal...might get a trip to Wembley after all!! Not sure my heart would survive 2 such important games in the span of a week or so. Imagine winning the last game in the league against Wigan to force a playoff only to lose it at Wembley... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Anything similar next term is just not acceptable. I expect a busy summer, or heads need to roll. If we went into next season with the exact same players, we'd be a midtable side. They've been midtable since January (i.e this calendar year) and would all be a year older. That's the thing with projects like this. They're only painful at the start but then they get better. Which is why it would be a crying shame to go down. That's very puzzling. At the start of the calendar year, we were 17th. Right now we are...er...17th. So I'm not sure how we have been "mid table" unless lots of other clubs have been also, in which case we are distinctly not "fine", we are as much at risk of a relegation battle next year as this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kwan Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) I think he means that if we took out the results before the calendar year, we would be a mid side table. Probably around 12th or 13th Edited April 22, 2013 by Kwan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatAboutTheFinish Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 There would be a play-off match at a neutral venue if all things were equal...might get a trip to Wembley after all!! Not sure my heart would survive 2 such important games in the span of a week or so. Imagine winning the last game in the league against Wigan to force a playoff only to lose it at Wembley... Be warned that head to head record doesn't count either so the scenario isn't that obscure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 22, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Anything similar next term is just not acceptable. I expect a busy summer, or heads need to roll. If we went into next season with the exact same players, we'd be a midtable side. They've been midtable since January (i.e this calendar year) and would all be a year older. That's the thing with projects like this. They're only painful at the start but then they get better. Which is why it would be a crying shame to go down. That's very puzzling. At the start of the calendar year, we were 17th. Right now we are...er...17th. So I'm not sure how we have been "mid table" unless lots of other clubs have been also, in which case we are distinctly not "fine", we are as much at risk of a relegation battle next year as this. This calendar year we've picked up 15 points from 12 games (I think) which, extrapolated over a whole season, would give us 48 points. Last year that would have seen us finish in exactly 10th place. So BOF is pretty much bang on. Edit: and if you make the (hopefully realistic!) assumption that we'll get 2 more victories (i.e. 6 points) that will hopefully see us safe out of our remaining 5 games, that 48 points drops to 47 which would leave us joint 10th with West Brom going on last season's table. So yeah, BOF's statement was reasonable, imo. Edited April 22, 2013 by Stevo985 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 That's very puzzling. At the start of the calendar year, we were 17th. Right now we are...er...17th. So I'm not sure how we have been "mid table" unless lots of other clubs have been also, in which case we are distinctly not "fine", we are as much at risk of a relegation battle next year as this. Here's the league table since January 1st. TEAMPWDLFAPtsGDPPGLP 1 Manchester United131021257 32 +182.461 2 Arsenal148332113 27 +81.933 3 Manchester City138232111 26 +1022 4 Tottenham Hotspur137422215 25 +71.925 5 Liverpool146533016 23 +141.647 6 Chelsea137242515 23 +101.774 7 Everton146531813 23 +51.646 8 Southampton145631915 21 +41.512 9 West Ham United145451719 19 -21.3610 10 Fulham145451416 19 -21.3611 11 Newcastle United145271723 17 -61.2116 12 Aston Villa134452121 16 01.2317 13 Sunderland144371719 15 -21.0714 14 Swansea City133551418 14 -41.089 15 Queens Park Rangers143561320 14 -7119 16 Wigan Athletic133461525 13 -10118 17 Norwich City142751021 13 -110.9313 18 West Bromwich Albion133371519 12 -40.928 19 Reading143291528 11 -130.7920 20 Stoke City142210924 8 -150.5715 It continues to get better if you go through the months. The table from February has us 10th. March 10th. The 2 games in April, 6th. Point is, we're getting better the further we get from the start of the season i.e. the start of this project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted April 22, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted April 22, 2013 My calcs were a game out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 I took everyone from game 21 onwards because our game 21 (Swansea) was our first Jan game. If there were any re-arrangements that crossed the 2012/13 timeline for anyone then I may well be out by a game or so. The jist is still the same though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Not so puzzling after all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I see we're playing fantasy football now. The reality is even though our form has improved we are still 17th, have been at the lower end of the table all season and are still under the very real threat of relegation. Fantasy league tables are fine if your looking for crumbs of comfort but the reality of the situation is that the real Premier League table never lies and we are where we are because we deserve to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 I see we're misinterpreting posts now. We are where we are because we deserve to be. No-one ever said otherwise. Tell me this. Do you think we're better since January than we were up to January? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 I see we're playing fantasy football now. The reality is even though our form has improved we are still 17th, have been at the lower end of the table all season and are still under the very real threat of relegation. Fantasy league tables are fine if your looking for crumbs of comfort but the reality of the situation is that the real Premier League table never lies and we are where we are because we deserve to be. It's nice that resaults are slightly better during the second half of the season but using it as proof or an indicator we'll be fine next season is about as iffy as the "Bannan best crosser=best player statistics" we're all ridiculing in another thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abdulaziz1 Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Well .. I think if we'd cancel January too .. We would have an awsome form ! Last 9 games .. 4 Wins , 3 loses , 2 draws .. Actually half of our wins in those last 9 games ! Hopefully we could have something good today .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 It's nice that resaults are slightly better during the second half of the season but using it as proof or an indicator we'll be fine next season is about as iffy as the "Bannan best crosser=best player statistics" we're all ridiculing in another threadYou are right, but the statistics are not actually the main argument. They merely go some way towards attempting to back it up objectively. My point is that the kids are getting older and will be more ready for a PL season come August. All they lack(ed) was experience and they're getting that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 It's nice that resaults are slightly better during the second half of the season but using it as proof or an indicator we'll be fine next season is about as iffy as the "Bannan best crosser=best player statistics" we're all ridiculing in another thread You are right, but the statistics are not actually the main argument. They merely go some way towards attempting to back it up objectively. My point is that the kids are getting older and will be more ready for a PL season come August. All they lack(ed) was experience and they're getting that. Yeah, I agree. We will be in a better position when the next season starts than this season. But i do feel we need 4-5 key signings to be a midtable team next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted April 22, 2013 Moderator Share Posted April 22, 2013 Depends. We might be title favourites ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briny_ear Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Not so puzzling after all! Yes, still very puzzling, I'm afraid. BOF's table is the exactly the same as the one I was looking at when I posted that with this sort of form we would still be at risk of relegation. Take a closer look at it. There are 3 points between us and the "17th" team. In a couple of games, if results go wrong for us, we could be "17th" in that table and having some difficulty in staying up. Many of the clubs below us in that table are ones who you would have said were relatively comfortable in mid table at the turn of the year, yet teams like Sunderland, Stoke and Norwich have been drawn into the relegation danger zone even though Sunderland and Norwich at least have post-January records not so different from ours. The fact remains that, for all our improved performance, we remain 17th in the table, just as we were at the turn of the year, so it is wrong to see it as a significant enough improvement to change our overall prospects dramatically. At these levels of performance, the margins are very tight and the relegation zone is always beckoning. I don't see any room for the sort of complacency BOF was showing. The idea that, if we perform as we have since January, we will be fine next season, looks very risky when you look at that table. We would still be very much in the "in danger of getting into a relegation fight" zone. I suppose the other bit of BOF's post that I don't accept is the idea that this is a "project". He said That's the thing with projects like this. They're only painful at the start but then they get better. That suggests the experience we have been going through this season is a common event, and those wise old moderators can just look at all the times it's happened in the past and reassure us all it's going well. I would say there has rarely if ever been an example of a chairman investing so heavily in a premier league club and then reversing the flow so suddenly. Lambert is taking a high risk gamble (because he has little choice) that he can maintain a club in the premier league with a squad that is below premier league capacity both in quantity and quality. This is nothing like a project in my eyes, it's just a big gamble. It may come off this year - I think it just about will. But making the same gamble next year would not guarantee the same happy outcome. Unless we strengthen the squad considerably, especially the defence, i'm afraid we will be at risk of a relegation battle again next year. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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