bobzy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Keyblade said: Incredible how he's suddenly become the best center half in the world after joining Liverpool, whereas I bet these same pundits wouldn't even consider him in the top 15 this time last year. Don't get me wrong, he's very good but the hyperbole is off the charts. You wouldn't see it if he played for Chelsea or Arsenal let's put it that way. I think you would if he put in the same defensive displays. It works both ways too - you can read back on VT and people are completely taking the piss out of spunking £75m on Van Dijk saying he’s awful etc etc. Obviously, it’s worked out pretty well for Liverpool. FWIW, he must be in the picture. I don’t watch enough European football to truly know otherwise, though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, bobzy said: I think you would if he put in the same defensive displays. It works both ways too - you can read back on VT and people are completely taking the piss out of spunking £75m on Van Dijk saying he’s awful etc etc. Obviously, it’s worked out pretty well for Liverpool. FWIW, he must be in the picture. I don’t watch enough European football to truly know otherwise, though. I think he's proven since his transfer that, in today's market, £75m is about right. I actually think it reflects well on Liverpool that they were so sure about his ability that they pursued him for so long and got their man. It's probably already been mentioned, but the last player to dribble past Van Djik was MIkel Merino for Newcastle... in March 2018 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2019 10 hours ago, Keyblade said: Incredible how he's suddenly become the best center half in the world after joining Liverpool, whereas I bet these same pundits wouldn't even consider him in the top 15 this time last year. But this time last year he wasn't leading the best defence in Europe to a potential league title and the semi finals of the Champions League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 that's the problem, you cant just say he's been a good buy, he's made their defence better, so has the better keeper, so have the wing backs and the purchase of proper holding midfielders* but he cost 75m and is the world most expensive defender and its Liverpool so he's either world class best defender ever or he's dogshit depending on your preference agree with the comments that he doesn't come up against world class strikers every week (although kane and aguero say he does play vs some) but you can also argue the style of play here is very different to the style and required skillset of the Italian league, VVD is quick, strong, brave all the things we love in CBs, can he read the game likes its a spot the dog book? (like god could?) not so sure on that, that probably fake quote from somewhere and maybe about what makes Busquets so good, he doesn't tackle he intercepts *keita is obviously shit because he hasn't scored 18 goals already this season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, villa4europe said: agree with the comments that he doesn't come up against world class strikers every week (although kane and aguero say he does play vs some) but you can also argue the style of play here is very different to the style and required skillset of the Italian league, VVD is quick, strong, brave all the things we love in CBs, can he read the game likes its a spot the dog book? (like god could?) not so sure on that, that probably fake quote from somewhere and maybe about what makes Busquets so good, he doesn't tackle he intercepts Which league demonstrates a greater abundance of attacking talent than the Premier League, though? When you're discussing better centre backs in the World, who are they and how many world class strikers are they facing comparatively? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 20 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think he's proven since his transfer that, in today's market, £75m is about right. I actually think it reflects well on Liverpool that they were so sure about his ability that they pursued him for so long and got their man. I've said it previously when people have been banging on about the amount spent etc, but they've actually spent very shrewdly indeed. I'd sooner "overspend" on exactly the right player than buy 2 or 3 players who aren't right. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 40 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I think he's proven since his transfer that, in today's market, £75m is about right. I actually think it reflects well on Liverpool that they were so sure about his ability that they pursued him for so long and got their man. It's probably already been mentioned, but the last player to dribble past Van Djik was MIkel Merino for Newcastle... in March 2018 how do they work that out though? It seems like it would be quite tough to keep an accurate record of it.........as opposed to say, goals or assists. Did Messi not get round him last night? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted May 2, 2019 VT Supporter Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said: how do they work that out though? It seems like it would be quite tough to keep an accurate record of it.........as opposed to say, goals or assists. Did Messi not get round him last night? Sorry, last player in the premier league. I don't know how it's worked out, but it comes from Opta I believe who are about as reliable a source of stats as you can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 46 minutes ago, bobzy said: I think you would if he put in the same defensive displays. It works both ways too - you can read back on VT and people are completely taking the piss out of spunking £75m on Van Dijk saying he’s awful etc etc. Obviously, it’s worked out pretty well for Liverpool. FWIW, he must be in the picture. I don’t watch enough European football to truly know otherwise, though. Yeah it's extremes on both ends tbh. He was still very good at Southampton and even Celtic before that. 75m for a defender was unheard of, but what do you expect in today's market when buying an elite 25 year old defender? I've been listening to some of the Sky programs at work and I kid you not they had a segment discussing of he was the best CB in PL history. Wtf. He's barely been there for a season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, Stevo985 said: Sorry, last player in the premier league. I don't know how it's worked out, but it comes from Opta I believe who are about as reliable a source of stats as you can get. Oh I know where it comes from and I'm not debating the validity of you mentioning it - it's become a common stat wheeled out when anyone wants to wax lyrical about VvD recently. I'm just curious to know how accurate it actually is - and it's a rhetorical question really as I don't think anyone here could accurately answer it. At the end of the day, he's a bloody good defender. Could you imagine him and Mings together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 If Liverpool were to cash in on Van Dyke they would get a lot more than they paid. That's the measure of his success. Coutinho on the other hand has not been worth the money Barcelona have paid. Klopp seems to be the bridesmaid all the time. So near to winning trophies. They played well last night and but for poor finishing and Messi they would won at the nou camp. Many times you see British sides being totally outplayed there, like Man U but that wasn't the case last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Last couple games vs Germany they made him look very average though I think him and De Ligt dont look a good partnership He is a good player but as said before it's this best defender in the world hype that will continue the criticism. Chiellini, Godin, Ramos though he isnt having a great season are all ahead of him for a start. We are also in a dark time for centre backs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 30 minutes ago, Zatman said: Last couple games vs Germany they made him look very average though I think him and De Ligt dont look a good partnership He is a good player but as said before it's this best defender in the world hype that will continue the criticism. Chiellini, Godin, Ramos though he isnt having a great season are all ahead of him for a start. We are also in a dark time for centre backs I don’t think we are at all - they’ve just evolved. I’ve never bought into Ramos being one of the World’s best centre backs, but his style has now become more the norm when looking for defenders - someone who is quick and technically proficient alongside the usual defensive traits. As an aside, trotting out Chiellini and Godin seems lazy. Surely their time as the best has been and gone? Coulibaly seems to be the most hyped outside of Van Dijk. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Never understood why Vertonghen and Alderweireld aren't in these conversations. Best CB partnership in the world for me. Vertonghen in particular is just a Rolls Royce of a defender. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 13 minutes ago, Keyblade said: Never understood why Vertonghen and Alderweireld aren't in these conversations. Best CB partnership in the world for me. Vertonghen in particular is just a Rolls Royce of a defender. Vertonghen is quality I feel is underrated and has a dirty streak good defenders need. Alderweireld was good but I think Poch doesnt fancy him anymore as usually takes him off instead of Sanchez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 6 hours ago, bobzy said: I don’t think we are at all - they’ve just evolved. I’ve never bought into Ramos being one of the World’s best centre backs, but his style has now become more the norm when looking for defenders - someone who is quick and technically proficient alongside the usual defensive traits. As an aside, trotting out Chiellini and Godin seems lazy. Surely their time as the best has been and gone? Coulibaly seems to be the most hyped outside of Van Dijk. I think Godin is massively overrated these days. I don't want to diminish what he's done too much, but I can't help feeling he's a bit of a system player. But as for now, he just isn't at that level. Chiellini is still up there, Juve look quite poor at the back without him. Skriniar is probably the best individual defender in Serie A though IMO. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 8 hours ago, bobzy said: Which league demonstrates a greater abundance of attacking talent than the Premier League, though? When you're discussing better centre backs in the World, who are they and how many world class strikers are they facing comparatively? Agreed completely. I don't get this myth that the PL is somehow overrated and full of rubbish. Compared to what? The one genuine top striker that plays in the Bundesliga? Or the couple on La Liga and Serie A? Cavani has run out of gas and is probably still the best #9 in Ligue 1. The PL isn't really any weaker than those leagues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 No Salah, no Firmino in the return leg. But Plop can at least take comfort in the £4.5m they'll receive from the clauses in the Coutinho transfer when Barca win the CL title. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvfcRigo82 Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 On 02/05/2019 at 17:51, Keyblade said: Never understood why Vertonghen and Alderweireld aren't in these conversations. Best CB partnership in the world for me. Vertonghen in particular is just a Rolls Royce of a defender. I agree I like them and I have always rated Alderweireld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted May 6, 2019 Share Posted May 6, 2019 I hope Leicester beat Citeh tonight and Liverpool lose their last game. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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