Rodders Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 (edited) To be honest I don't dispute that the usr of Zionism as a word can set off alarm bells, but it's use should always be seen in the context of the speaker. That is possibly hopelessly naive, and specifying the Israeli State would avoid this a bit, but even so the presumption of the worst connotations is infuriating. I know it's a huge hornets nest, but there always seems to me an extreme response to comments that to me are suggesting, that there is a political imperative amongst some quarters to ensure they absolutely do not incur the wrath of the Israeli lobby, foregoing a potentially useful if precarious discussion in favour of flagging up an irrelevant position loud and clear. Edited April 22, 2016 by Rodders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted April 22, 2016 Share Posted April 22, 2016 @Rodders, speaks volumes to the world we live in that you have to be so careful about even trying to broach this topic. Propaganda win for the Z-people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StanBalaban Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Nothing new here, but front page of the Grauniad talks about the dwindling numbers of Christians. I would bet that within the 44% that said they were Christian, a good number will be the fairweather, non-practicing type that only seem to go to a church for weddings, baptisms, Christmas and the like, so the numbers are probably even less that reported. Progress, nonetheless. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PussEKatt Posted May 24, 2016 Share Posted May 24, 2016 Seems logical to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 My post from the 'ISIS' thread that might be better suited here. Originally asked in a slightly mischievous manner, I will be interested in any serious responses, presumably from those who have a faith. What makes one old book of prophecy better than another? Is the Old Testament best because it is older and more 'original' than subsequent teachings? Is the New Testament better because it is updated and corrects the bugs of the Old Testament? Or is the Quran more modern and therefore better? So is Judaism, Christianity or Islam the best? Then which sect to follow? Or should one turn to a newer, perhaps cooler religion? Then again, my big belly might suit Buddhism. Someone new to religion could easily be confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 Pastafarianism, Brommy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 It's impossible to answer objectively isn't? You are either religious and therefore have already made your choice (or more likely had no choice and had your religion put upon you) or you think they are all sky fairies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharkyvilla Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, brommy said: My post from the 'ISIS' thread that might be better suited here. Originally asked in a slightly mischievous manner, I will be interested in any serious responses, presumably from those who have a faith. What makes one old book of prophecy better than another? Is the Old Testament best because it is older and more 'original' than subsequent teachings? Is the New Testament better because it is updated and corrects the bugs of the Old Testament? Or is the Quran more modern and therefore better? So is Judaism, Christianity or Islam the best? Then which sect to follow? Or should one turn to a newer, perhaps cooler religion? Then again, my big belly might suit Buddhism. Someone new to religion could easily be confused. I don't see how anyone remotely well-educated can start to believe in any of them if they have previously grown up with no religion. Then if you're born into a certain religion then you're going to believe that one is best, so there is no real unbiased answer really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Mormonism (? lol) and Scientology are also options for those who enjoy not thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said: I don't see how anyone remotely well-educated can start to believe in any of them if they have previously grown up with no religion. Then if you're born into a certain religion then you're going to believe that one is best, so there is no real unbiased answer really. Generally and objectively that tends to be one of the better rebuttals of religions and their belief that they're the true one. That essentially the sky fairy you grow up believing in or the flavour of fable that you believe in is massively down to geography, and what part of this rock you were born on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, brommy said: What makes one old book of prophecy better than another? I reckon price has to come into it. You don't want to overpay for a paperback copy of The New Testament, when you can pick up a hard back of the Mabinogion for half the price. I'm told The Gospel of the Flying Spaghetti Monster is a bit on the expensive side. SO value for money is key, for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 5, 2016 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2016 You get free wine with Catholicism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V01 Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 You have to be cool with priests putting things in your mouth though... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MakemineVanilla Posted July 5, 2016 Share Posted July 5, 2016 Most people seem to think that the holy trinity of capitalism, consumerism and instant gratification, works perfectly for them. There are many books which people quote from constantly: the Argos laminated book of dreams, seems to be a particular favourite. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blandy Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 21 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: the Argos laminated book of dreams I spot an oxymoron, or something. The Argos book of promises of mild disappointment and regret more like. Still, people nick the little pens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted July 5, 2016 Moderator Share Posted July 5, 2016 27 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said: Most people seem to think that the holy trinity of capitalism, consumerism and instant gratification, works perfectly for them. There are many books which people quote from constantly: the Argos laminated book of dreams, seems to be a particular favourite. If your copy is laminated I think that says more about you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted July 5, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2016 About a minute in. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted July 5, 2016 2 hours ago, brommy said: What makes one old book of prophecy better than another? Is the Old Testament best because it is older and more 'original' than subsequent teachings? Is the New Testament better because it is updated and corrects the bugs of the Old Testament? Or is the Quran more modern and therefore better? So is Judaism, Christianity or Islam the best? Then which sect to follow? Or should one turn to a newer, perhaps cooler religion? Then again, my big belly might suit Buddhism. Someone new to religion could easily be confused. Religion is a hereditary disease in that you get it from your parents. The ability to believe fairy tales to be true requires childhood indoctrination and this is why so many believe in "something out there" despite the complete lack of any evidence. Of the books you mention, they all contain a lot of good things and a lot of bad things. If any of them were written today, they'd all be banned from schools (and frankly wouldn't get published without a serious editing). 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted July 5, 2016 Author VT Supporter Share Posted July 5, 2016 22 minutes ago, limpid said: Religion is a hereditary disease in that you get it from your parents. The ability to believe fairy tales to be true requires childhood indoctrination Not always. In my experience there are three types of believer: 1. Those who get it from their family and wider cultural group. By far the biggest group. 2. Those who talk themselves into it, based on some spurious pseudo logic. They may have no religious background, but feel some psychological need to believe in/belong to something for emotional security. 3. Those who claim to have had an out-of-the-blue revelation of some apparently supernatural form. Often (but not always) people who have had bad experiences (abuse, PTSD, drugs, alcoholism, etc.) I'd say those categories, singly or in combination, cover 99% of believers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted July 5, 2016 Administrator Share Posted July 5, 2016 @mjmooney I don't believe 2 is likely to happen to people who as children where taught to think sceptically. I can't comment on 3 as I don't know enough about it.It seems to me like you'd have to already accept the "concept" of supernatural in order for this to even occur to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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