All-Purpose Religion Thread

[Ikantcpell]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

Religion is worse than N'Zogbia.

Thats the worst insult on religion ive ever heard

[limpid]

7 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

It wasn't a straw man, it was a scenario set up by another poster in which a woman is "othered" or ostracized by society for wearing a niqab. All I did was name it.

A straw man would be singling out a word from my comment to imply I'm calling anybody who disagrees with niqab xenophobic.

In that case, it was not xenophobia. By using this word you introduced the concept of "other country". It doesn't mean "other" or "otherness". The strawman was to claim people were saying "go home" to people wearing certain headgear.

[Keyblade]

It was an example, referring to hypothetical people in a hypothetical situation that I didn't even create, jheez man I don't know why you're focusing on that one word  . I could have easily used Daily Mail reader or bank teller or airport security instead and my point (tangential to my overall point, mind) would have remained. 

[TrentVilla]

1 hour ago, blandy said:

My personal experience  is that a niqab does prevent me getting on because when it's discovered that  I'm a man wearing it, everyone like, gets all antsy and negative, like I'm some kind of wiedo. I mean, wtf!

So kids, don't do it

Perhaps if you didn't go for the cut off at the waist version there wouldn't be an issue.

[PussEKatt]

In the papers today about another catholic priest who is a pedofile and the church covered it up for a long time by moving him around instead of doing something about it.He was here in Perth when he was found out and he is in America now ( and apparently not comming back to Perth )

What is it with the catholic church,is it a club for pedofiles or what ?

[limpid]

49 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

In the papers today about another catholic priest who is a pedofile and the church covered it up for a long time by moving him around instead of doing something about it.He was here in Perth when he was found out and he is in America now ( and apparently not comming back to Perth )

What is it with the catholic church,is it a club for pedofiles or what ?

Apparently so. It's criminal behaviour and should be treated as such. They shouldn't get special privileges just because they are zombie worshipping cannibals.

[StanBalaban]

I thought this was quite good from Ricky Gervais

 

[choffer]

[Chindie]

I listen to Sam Harris's podcast semi-regularly. I don't always agree with him, and his habit of starting every podcast with 'X person who hates me has misrepresented my views again this week' is deeply irritating, but he often has interesting arguments and perspectives on many things. He's pleasingly anti-religion, and very openly hostile to Islamism which is appropriate, but these tend to open him up to attacks from pro-Islam and left commentators.

Occasionally something he says will strike me, and that happened today. His latest podcast is an AMA, and at one point someone asks about the Golden Age of Islam and Islam's benefit to the world. He largely bins this (with some good arguments) but he raises a fact that I completely was unaware of. Spain translates more books into Spanish every year than the entire Arab world has translated into Arabic since the 9th Century. The same population only produces 1% of the world's books, and the percentage of these that are religious is the highest of any community on the planet. These figures are from a UN study he states, and I can't say I've checked this, but those figures astound me. There simply has to be another community that translates things to Arabic (are the Arab world is far more multilingual than I appreciate), because I can't imagine a society can operate today that doesn't translate ideas from elsewhere to use for their own gain, and moreover would be so isolated to its own ideas as to be terrifying.

[chrisp65]

There's got to be a huge chunk of a nugget of truth in that about the translation of books. But I wouldn't mind betting you can chip away at a lot of the shock value of the vastness of the statistic.

I'd imagine that there weren't that many non-arabic books worthy of translation in the 9th century? I'd imagine the same would go for quite a few other centuries. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if there was more sci fi porn fan fiction self published since 2000 than the total number of books on earth in the 9th, 10th, 11th 12th 13th centuries combined. Just a guess, but I bet I'm pretty close to being right.

Arabs only being responsible for producing 1% of the world books. Well, yeah, could be true. But then arabs only represent 4% or 5% of the world population. Quite a few of them in Libya and Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc., have been quite preoccupied lately, which could explain a poor showing in the world of romantic fiction as well as business books. I'd wonder how many 'arab' doctors and surgeons have migrated to other areas and had a hand in publishing research papers written in english or german or spanish? I'd imagine there are remarkably few science papers written in Albanian, a european language, but a poor country. Somebody with something interesting to say there might well have bunked off to Italy or Greece or Turkey?

Spain as a massive book translation hub? Well, that would make sense. There is a huge Spanish speaking population on earth, about half a billion native speakers? Something like that. A few hundred million more than have arabic as their first language anyway.

Then I guess you've got the over representation of rich populations with leisure time to spare and a ready market to buy their books. I'd hazard a guess that the english speaking world is head and shoulders above much of the rest of the world for producing 'books'. How much of it is pulp is probably a matter of opinion, but go and stand in Waterstones and consider how much poorer your life would be if 80% of those books didn't exist. All those self help books. All those business strategy books. All those cathartic autobiographies by people that had a bad childhood. Books of pictures of mountains. The Labdybird book of boyfriends. Mostly shite, would be the likely answer.

But yes. Probably a very good nugget of truth in there. Saudi Arabia appears to be a bit of a giant thinking and ideas black hole. China would be another one worth studying. They probably churn out a good few books, they'll have quantity. But it will all be state approved. Where's the value in that?

[PussEKatt]

I think its mostly to do with $$. If you are going to write a book,will you get the most sales in the English speaking world, the Spanish speaking world or the Arab speaking world ? Of course the subject matter comes into the equation as well.More Arab people would read about islam and more English speaking people would read about Jesus and the Pope etc.

[chrisp65]

Based on no research whatsoever, just my own prejudices, I'd guess that the most english language books by genre are probably:

1 Sci Fi / fantasy / harry potteresque / vampire space magician type pap

2 Middle aged women's novels about womens love and heartache stuff, be it historical romance or written versions of The Archers

3 Cookery and craft and weight loss lifestyle shite

4 Pictures of tanks / tractors / james bond cars / hitler / motorbikes (based on one visit to The Works)

 

I'd guess the pope might not make the top 10, and rightly so.

[mjmooney]

39 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

Based on no research whatsoever, just my own prejudices, I'd guess that the most english language books by genre are probably:

1 Sci Fi / fantasy / harry potteresque / vampire space magician type pap

2 Middle aged women's novels about womens love and heartache stuff, be it historical romance or written versions of The Archers

3 Cookery and craft and weight loss lifestyle shite

4 Pictures of tanks / tractors / james bond cars / hitler / motorbikes (based on one visit to The Works)

 

I'd guess the pope might not make the top 10, and rightly so.

Don't forget crime/thrillers. Lots of them. And misery memoirs. 

[Davkaus]

How the **** is this backwards religious bullshit happening in the UK in 2016? It's absolutely shameful that this is happening in a modern western country.

Woman given suspended sentence for having abortion in the UK

 

 

Quote

A Northern Irish woman has been given a suspended prison sentence for buying pills over the internet to induce an abortion. 

The 21-year-old pleaded guilty to procuring her own abortion by using a poison and of supplying a poison with intent to procure a miscarriage at Belfast Crown Court. 

She was given a three-month sentence suspended for two years. 

READ MORE

Today in the UK, a woman was sentenced for the crime of an abortion

Her flatmates reported her to the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI) when they found the remains of a male foetus in the bin in July 2014. 

In Northern Ireland, abortions can only be legally carried out when the life or mental health of the mother is believed to be in danger. 

Many women are forced to travel to Britain to have the procedure but they are often not eligible for NHS treatment and have to pay for their own flights.

The court heard how the woman - who was 19 at the time of the incident - told her flatmates she had tried to get an abortion in England but could not cover the costs. 

The Abortion Act of 1967 has never applied to Northern Ireland (Rex)

She contacted a clinic in England who told her she could take mifepristone and misoprostol - drugs available on the internet which will induce a miscarriage. 

Her defence barrister Paul Bacon said his client’s prosecution highlighted the difference in legislation between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. 

He told the court “had she lived in any other jurisdiction, she would not have found herself before the court” and said she felt “victimised by the system”. 

UK news in pictures

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Mr Bacon said at the time the woman was living with people in Belfast she did not know very well and felt “isolated and trapped...with no one to turn to”. 

The woman has now had a baby with her partner and is “trying to put her life back together”. 

She was convicted under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861 which carries a maximum sentence of life in prison. 

Amnesty International has condemned the conviction saying Northern Ireland was 'violating the human rights of women and girls' (Getty Images)

Its rules on abortion were superseded in the rest of the UK by the Abortion Act of 1967. 

Amnesty International condemned the conviction with its Northern Ireland Director Patrick Corrigan saying the country’s government was “violating women and girls’ human rights”. 

He said: “We’re utterly appalled by the court’s decision to impose a suspended prison sentence on this woman.  A woman who needs an abortion is not a criminal. The law should not treat her as such.

The girl was arrested after her flatmates found the remain of a male foetus (Getty Images)

“This tragic case reveals, yet again, that making abortion illegal does not stop women in Northern Ireland needing or seeking terminations.

 “Those who can afford it travel to England for the treatment they need - over a thousand women make that journey from Northern Ireland every year. 

“Those that can’t afford it, as appears to be situation in this case, may take medication in an attempt to terminate their pregnancy – without medical supervision or support.”

He called on Northern Ireland’s government to stop “sanctioning women and girls for seeking the healthcare they need”. 

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Davkaus

[villakram]

On 4/5/2016 at 14:07, Davkaus said:

How the **** is this backwards religious bullshit happening in the UK in 2016? It's absolutely shameful that this is happening in a modern western country.

Woman given suspended sentence for having abortion in the UK

 

 

 

I have read that her flatmates found the fetus in the bin in their apartment/house a few days later, so I suspect this is not as simple as a girl wanting an abortion being punished. 

[PussEKatt]

She should have treated the fetus with just a little more respect than that but that does not make it right that she commited a crime by having aborted her baby.Next they will lock you up for 24 hours for eating meat on a friday ?!

[blandy]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/weddings/78999756/counting-down-to-worlds-first-legal-pastafarian-wedding
 

Quote

 

World's first legal Pastafarian wedding in NZ

Toby Ricketts and Marianna Young have tied the knot in the world's first legal Pastafarian wedding.

The pirate-themed ceremony – on a ship docked in Akaroa before a crowd dressed in full pirate regalia – featured choruses of grunts, colander crowns and pirate-themed puns. 

'Ministeroni' Karen Martyn, who became the world's first legal marriage celebrant for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (FSM) earlier this year, wedded the couple. 

The Church of the FSM is officially recognised as a religious organisation. Members are entitled to wear a colander as 'religious headgear' in passport and driver license photographs.

 

 

[villakram]

On 4/13/2016 at 06:05, PussEKatt said:

She should have treated the fetus with just a little more respect than that but that does not make it right that she commited a crime by having aborted her baby.Next they will lock you up for 24 hours for eating meat on a friday ?!

I basically agree... but, law is the law, and an unofficial private dental practice etc. would also result in much trouble.

Now, I can't imagine the situation that girl found herself in, but the decision she made was not legal. However, any punishment should take into account the circumstances at play here and what appears to be the poor mental state of the girl at the time. I'm Irish and we have the same luddite religious shite thinking too... it's a shameful and embarrassing way to run countries.

 

[Rodders]

the islamophobic discussion of this student NUS president is beginning to really get on my tits. 

 

From here: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/apr/21/nus-president-malia-bouattia-must-redress-concerns-over-antisemitism-say-jewish-students

 

 

 

Quote

 

Daniel Clemens, the president of Birmingham J-Soc, said her response was “completely unsatisfactory”. “There is quite a bit of uproar among the wider campus and student community,” Clemens said. “I think that anti-Zionism and antisemitism are two and the same thing. Zionism is the belief that Jewish people should have a homeland to live in without threat of annihilation or war. This stems from a Jewish belief. So when someone attacks Zionism they’re indirectly attacking Judaism as a religion, because the two go hand in hand.”

 

 

is **** bollocks for starters His comment is far more incendiary and liable to limiting an open discourse because of this intertwining of opposing Israeli / Zionist politics and religion. Absolute **** horseshit. The idea you can't criticize the atrocities committed towards the palestinians without being considered anti-semitic is so ludicrous it's untrue. 

Furthermore in the BBC article re this the revolting insinuation that she was supporting ISIS because she had opposed one poorly worded statement ( yet had supported another ) has really gotten on my tits. I suppose this is a media related issue, but sticking here due to the religious comment involved. I have no time for organised religion, it's all clap-trap but when it continues to sideline freedom of expression in such a fashion it really is undermining our society in a peculiarly pernicious way. 

 

Indeed, such is the way focus on these topics go I feel I have to insanely add the disclaimer that I am quite obviously neither, anti-semitic, a holocaust denier, or a supporter of suicide-bombing terrorism. **** obviously. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by Rodders

[chrisp65]

Zionism is a movement, both religious and political, that promotes a Jewish homeland for Jews in Israel. 

It is a word with multiple meanings, like it or not. As such, when 'a' says they are anti zionist, 'b' can deliberately or accidentally infer meaning on this.

Quote

The term “Zionism” was coined in 1890 by Nathan Birnbaum.

Its general definition means the national movement for the return of the Jewish people to their homeland and the resumption of Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel. 

Since the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948, Zionism has come to include the movement for the development of the State of Israel and the protection of the Jewish nation in Israel through support for theIsrael Defense Forces.

From inception, Zionism avocated tangible as well as spiritual aims. Jews of all persuasions - left, right,religious and secular - formed the Zionist movement and worked together toward its goals.

Jewish Virtual Library

Now, we might disagree, we might not like the source. We might have counter claims. But there is clearly an ability to mean different things by Zion.

 

This is how the hate mongers on both sides can happily go on going on slagging each other off and threatening each other and claiming to be simply misunderstood by the murderous dogs on the other side.