Genie Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 15 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said: Still don't see how he is playin against his parent club. Surely a conflict of interest there He scored a worldy past them too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 11 hours ago, mikeyp102 said: Still don't see how he is playin against his parent club. Surely a conflict of interest there The Thiboit Courtois rule. It just shows you how stupid the people running the game are, can't even get basic rules right. The loan system should be abolished, but it never will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PieFacE Posted December 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2016 14 hours ago, Genie said: If he was a good as the hype and his paycheque then he would have implemented all of his ideas. If he needs 6 transfer windows and half a billion quid then he's only really proved he can do what many other managers could also do. What about if he doesn't need 6 windows or any money, he just needs time? You can't expect a squad of footballers to change their complete style of play in the space of 3 or 4 months surely? I expect next season Man City will absolutely dominate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 7, 2016 Share Posted December 7, 2016 My personal opinion is that clubs shouldn't be allowed to prevent their loanees from playing against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 7, 2016 Author Share Posted December 7, 2016 I dont think clubs should be allowed have so many loanees in general unless they came from their youth team 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 7, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 7, 2016 On 06/12/2016 at 10:21, PieFacE said: Or maybe he can't implement all his ideas within one transfer window and what...14 games? Yup. It's panning out the way a hell of a lot of people thought it would. Not quite there yet but give it a season and I bet Man City will be unstoppable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 06/12/2016 at 10:21, PieFacE said: Or maybe he can't implement all his ideas within one transfer window and what...14 games? Obviously not but inheriting what he did and then having £170m to improve certainly should help. But I made no comment on their results or their performances. I simply pointed out that this is his first real test and so the way he has been viewed so far in his career is ridiculously over the top. With the resources they have you would expect he will be very successful. However it remains to be seen if he can be slightly less idealistic and a little more pragmatic because you would suspect he will need to make that adjustment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOF Posted December 8, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 8, 2016 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: Obviously not but inheriting what he did and then having £170m to improve certainly should help. But I made no comment on their results or their performances. I simply pointed out that this is his first real test and so the way he has been viewed so far in his career is ridiculously over the top. With the resources they have you would expect he will be very successful. However it remains to be seen if he can be slightly less idealistic and a little more pragmatic because you would suspect he will need to make that adjustment. I think that's pretty much bang on. I'd just add that it's also perfectly acceptable to enjoy them struggling at the moment. Those who don't like that can be safe in the knowledge that it probably won't last long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 On 12/7/2016 at 09:33, PieFacE said: What about if he doesn't need 6 windows or any money, he just needs time? You can't expect a squad of footballers to change their complete style of play in the space of 3 or 4 months surely? I expect next season Man City will absolutely dominate. Well yeah, he inherited the best team and spent a lot so he certainly should dominate next season and improve upon Pelligrini's CL SF. Though I fully expect another £150m+ spend. Of course if they win the league, it'll be nothing to do with him spending near half a billion quid in the space of 12 months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's one of those isn't it? Good manager gets jobs at big clubs where he has the opportunity to spend lots of money and wins stuff. Yet people will knock him because they'll say he only takes big jobs. He wins stuff at big clubs with lots of money. That's exactly the kind of manager these clubs want to employ, so why would he ever take a step down and take a smaller job? Plenty of other managers at big clubs spend fortunes and don't get the kind of results Pep does. People say "yeah he'll probably dominate but he'll have spent loads of money!". Well Man City have been spending loads of money for years now and they haven't "dominated", so if Pep gets them to that standard then surely that's still an achievement, even if he's spent loads of money to do it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 9, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2016 I'm not sure people are criticising him for only taking big jobs as such, I'm certainly not. Why wouldn't if he is lucky enough to be in that position. I just think it should be factored into any assessment of him, it rarely is. Obviously if he takes City to another level he deserves credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I'm not sure people are criticising him for only taking big jobs as such, I'm certainly not. Why wouldn't if he is lucky enough to be in that position. I just think it should be factored into any assessment of him, it rarely is. Obviously if he takes City to another level he deserves credit. Pretty much this I'm not knocking him for succeeding, you can obviously only beat what's in front of you. But it's to the level people put him at which I just find a bit silly. Tito walked in to Barca and won the title back from Madrid, Luis Enrique won everything at Barca - despite being a massive failure at Roma. Jupp won everything at Bayern and Pep couldn't repeat. I'm in no way saying he's an average manager, I happen to think he's very good. But I had Man United fans tell me how quality Wes Brown was. He has a pretty huge trophy haul to show for it. In reality, he was just fortunate enough to be at United. When he dropped down a level, it showed up his lack of ability when he didn't have others to cover for what he was lacking. Who knows. Maybe Pep could go to Benfica and win them the European Cup. Or maybe without having a World XI lineup, his system would be completely outdone without the players quality to cover for areas it was lacking. I doubt we'll ever find out. think he'll have 4/5 years at City, then do a World Cup cycle with a Brazil or Spain, then retire before he's 55. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2016 I don't really understand the last two posts. Isn't the level people put him at that he's one of the best managers in the world? Isn't that true? Yes he's done it with money, but like I said that's part of what makes good managers good managers, the ability to use money effectively. If all you had to do was spend the money then Man City would have employed Gary Megson for 100 grand a year and given him £250million to spend. I think everyone who rates Pep does so with the understanding that he's had money to spend. But 99% of great managers at big clubs have money to spend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 46 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: employed Gary Megson for 100 grand a year and given him £250million to spend. If ever a group of words shouted 'Randy Lerner's route back into football' . . . 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: I don't really understand the last two posts. Isn't the level people put him at that he's one of the best managers in the world? Isn't that true? Yes he's done it with money, but like I said that's part of what makes good managers good managers, the ability to use money effectively. If all you had to do was spend the money then Man City would have employed Gary Megson for 100 grand a year and given him £250million to spend. I think everyone who rates Pep does so with the understanding that he's had money to spend. But 99% of great managers at big clubs have money to spend. It's more how City are playing. Mancini and Pellegrini got some formidable performances out of them in the league...in the 11-12 season Man. City went to Spurs and won 5-1 and of course won 6-1 at OT. 13-14 they beat Spurs 6-0 at home and Arsenal by a similar amount. High scoring wins in the league aren't anything to write home about and indeed there haven't been that many so far. They however look dodgy as feck at the back particularly in the CL. I've said before no English team will win that competition again until they learn how to defend as a unit and keep clean sheets in the knock out stages, Man. City with what they have there look miles away from that. They should be winning the league but again look like they're going to fall short due to poor defensive recruitment. How many clean sheets have they actually kept, 2 or 3? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2016 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) The league is 14 games old. They're four points off the top. I think it's a bit early to conclude they're going to fall short FWIW I think they will fall short this season. But I bet next season and beyond they'll be a force to be reckoned with. Edited December 9, 2016 by Stevo985 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 3 hours ago, Stevo985 said: I don't really understand the last two posts. Isn't the level people put him at that he's one of the best managers in the world? Isn't that true? Yes he's done it with money, but like I said that's part of what makes good managers good managers, the ability to use money effectively. If all you had to do was spend the money then Man City would have employed Gary Megson for 100 grand a year and given him £250million to spend. I think everyone who rates Pep does so with the understanding that he's had money to spend. But 99% of great managers at big clubs have money to spend. You seem to be implying there's nothing between great and bad, though. Gary Megson is a bad manager and probably wouldn't win everything at Barca. But any half decent manager is going to be successful there. Tito Villanova spent 1 full year at Barca and had the highest points total in the clubs history. He was a nobody (with all due respect) in management terms. Luis Enrique has won everything there is at Barca. He took Roma to one of their worst seasons in decades. Do you think these are among the World's best coaches? I agree that all managers at top clubs have money to spend, but some top managers have done it at smaller clubs or without masses of money. For example Mourinho won multiple league titles and multiple European trophies whilst not even being the biggest spender in Portugal, forget Europe. Fergie had his success with Aberdeen before his easier United job. Even to a lesser extent, Conte and Allegri earned their bigger name jobs through success with Sassuolo/Cagliari/Siena. Of the past 7 or so years, is there any 2 jobs in World football easier than Barca and Bayern? I don't think so. Sure you have your Juventus/Celtic type clubs who also win, but they generally speaking aren't massive CL contenders for the most part. Barca and Bayern won multiple CLs without Guardiola, they won multiple league titles without Guardiola. Surely you can understand where we're coming from? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 4 wins in 14 is shocking 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Bizarre back line today. Trying to do too much too soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted December 10, 2016 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2016 As I said before, needs to be more pragmatic. The PL isn't full of easy games and soft opposition like Spanish and German football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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