Dr_Pangloss Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Guardiola is getting found out, what a surprise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 and its great to watch. His comment after United game showed his arrogance and why he would fail. He didnt think their would be so many long balls in the Premier League said it before McLeish could have managed them Barca and Bayern teams to success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, TrentVilla said: I don't think anyone was saying Klopp hadn't improved Liverpool last season or if they were nobody was talking them seriously as it was plainly not true. Right now there is no improvement in City, if anything they've gone backwards, it remains to be seen if they will improve. Personally I think your comparison above is flawed. The improvement in Liverpool was visible last season and they've continued to improve yet further this season, so Klopp didn't need a season. As for what Conte inherited compared to Pep, both sides one the league 12 months apart. One then spent over £150m so I think it's somewhat unfair suggest Conte got the better hand. What Conte has shown is tactical flexibility to find a way of playing that gets the best out of the resources he has, he has then drilled them to within an inch of their lives. He has also sorted out Costa, rejuvenated a number of players and performed a minor miracle with Moses. Which players has Pep improved? Which signings that he has made have offered much? He still retains his idealistic and arrogant approach compared to Conte's flexibility and adaptability. Right now Klopp and Conte look the better managers and personally I think their achievements are far more impressive in their careers to date. There was initial improvement and they played great against Barcelona at home, but yes they are certainly no better than last season but I wouldn't say they are worse. I just think people are too quick to judge. If next season we see little or no improvement then I might agree he's not as good as people think. The league I think is less the priority this season than the champions league. Ife he wins that with this City side then we'll be calling him a genius again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Even when you try and sort of defend him, there's still no excuses with how much money he's spent. Like some of the players clearly aren't comfortable enough playing it out from the back - so why not sign players that are? The players around Aguero aren't clinical enough. Muller, Robben, Villa and Pedro played well off Lewandowski and Messi and scored a bunch of goals. Sterling and de Buryne couldn't finish a sandwich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, PaulC said: There was initial improvement and they played great against Barcelona at home, but yes they are certainly no better than last season but I wouldn't say they are worse. I just think people are too quick to judge. If next season we see little or no improvement then I might agree he's not as good as people think. The league I think is less the priority this season than the champions league. Ife he wins that with this City side then we'll be calling him a genius again. Pellegrini got close last year and he's pretty poor. I wouldn't quite say spending £200m on a team that lost 1-0 in a semi final and going all the way is quite 'genius' level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 For the money Man City have why have they not assembled a world 11 of star players? They've still really only got Aguero in that top bracket and a handful from the next bracket down. If I was the owner, and I hadn't forgotten I'd bought them, I'd be wondering why given the investment in every single element of the club it's not looking like being a footballing super power yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Yes I agree you'd say Aguero world class and De Bruyne and Silva just under that level. The rest are average. Chelsea have better players throughout their squad. don't understand the signing of Nollito. Hes about the level of a Stoke. Not good enough for the top 3 clubs in Spain so why City. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Genie said: For the money Man City have why have they not assembled a world 11 of star players? They've still really only got Aguero in that top bracket and a handful from the next bracket down. If I was the owner, and I hadn't forgotten I'd bought them, I'd be wondering why given the investment in every single element of the club it's not looking like being a footballing super power yet. €625m in 4 years according to that transfermarkt site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 1, 2017 6 minutes ago, PaulC said: There was initial improvement and they played great against Barcelona at home, but yes they are certainly no better than last season but I wouldn't say they are worse. I just think people are too quick to judge. If next season we see little or no improvement then I might agree he's not as good as people think. The league I think is less the priority this season than the champions league. Ife he wins that with this City side then we'll be calling him a genius again. You see, right there that last line is the problem. He isn't a genius, not even remotely close despite his multiple achievements at Barca and Munich nothing he has done warrants that title being bestowed upon him but it so frequently is. City were narrowly beaten in the CL semi final last season, he has come in and spent £170m. I'd hardly call him a genius if he managed to win it based upon that. In fact, at a lot of clubs in that situation failure to win it would see him out of a job. Frankly I think saying the league is less of a priority is a complete excuse and there is no way that was the clubs stance this summer. Its not so much about judging Pep it's about the fact that he is hailed some kind of modern wonder when in reality he has had a very charmed career to date. This is his first real test and while it's too soon to say he is failing he certainly isn't currently succeeding. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Zatman said: said it before McLeish could have managed them Barca and Bayern teams to success And all it does is show how little knowledge you have of what he actually did at Barcelona the guardiola myth starts with "he took over a great team at Barcelona" no he didn't Edited January 1, 2017 by villa4europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrentVilla Posted January 1, 2017 Moderator Share Posted January 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, villa4europe said: And all it does is show how little knowledge you have of what he actually did at Barcelona the guardiola myth starts with "he took over a great team at Barcelona" no he didn't Yes he did. Granted they were going through a bad spell when Frank Rijkaard went but that doesn't detract from what went before that or what Guardiola inherited. To suggest otherwise is the myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 12 hours ago, PaulC said: I know they have spent a lot of money but maybe Pep needs a season to get the team playing the way he want to and the results to reflect it. Afterall some on here were saying Klopp had not improved Liverpool last season but we can now see the improvement this season and its reflected in the results they are getting. With Conte, he inherited a title winning side, they were just shockingly poor last season. That's a fair point in fairness. It was more the press reaction tbh...making Pep out like a deity and that he was going to play football England had never seen before as Zat says which has been balls from what I've seen of them so far this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Genie said: For the money Man City have why have they not assembled a world 11 of star players? They've still really only got Aguero in that top bracket and a handful from the next bracket down. If I was the owner, and I hadn't forgotten I'd bought them, I'd be wondering why given the investment in every single element of the club it's not looking like being a footballing super power yet. Ultimately despite the hype and money great players don't want to all play in the prem. City were linked last summer with Aubameyang and Bonucci. Bonucci signed new contract with Juventus so will probably finish his career there and Auba wants to play with Real Madrid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 minute ago, VillaChris said: Ultimately despite the hype and money great players don't want to all play in the prem. City were linked last summer with Aubameyang and Bonucci. Bonucci signed new contract with Juventus so will probably finish his career there and Auba wants to play with Real Madrid. Over the past couple of seasons I'd say this is one of the worst quality Premier League's I've ever seen, however the quality in the other top leagues is hardly that high, football seems to have plateaued somewhat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 4 hours ago, TrentVilla said: Conte has . . . performed a minor miracle with Moses. Gotta question whether 'divine intervention' is within the rule book 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xela Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 1 hour ago, PaulC said: Yes I agree you'd say Aguero world class and De Bruyne and Silva just under that level. The rest are average. Chelsea have better players throughout their squad. don't understand the signing of Nollito. Hes about the level of a Stoke. Not good enough for the top 3 clubs in Spain so why City. Because they can't attract the truly world class players? I can't think of a top class player who would choose City over the traditional giants of world football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Dr_Pangloss said: Over the past couple of seasons I'd say this is one of the worst quality Premier League's I've ever seen, however the quality in the other top leagues is hardly that high, football seems to have plateaued somewhat. Defending has gone out of the window in the Premier League I agree, but its entertaining because theres loads of goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 1, 2017 Author Share Posted January 1, 2017 3 hours ago, villa4europe said: And all it does is show how little knowledge you have of what he actually did at Barcelona the guardiola myth starts with "he took over a great team at Barcelona" no he didn't they were Champions League winners 2 seasons previously. They had the heart of the Spain team that dominated Euro 2008, best striker in the world in Eto'o and Messi finally coming to full fitness plus professionals like Marquez, Abidal and Henry on the books. He also spent 50 million more in the window than they made. they were hardly Liverpool in how long since they were a success 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 Guardiola likely has some sort of OCD because he want's every little minute thing in just his special way. And won't change it no matter what. Really can't argue with the results he's had prior to coming to City, but IMO he made Bayern worse than they were under Jupp Heynckes, I rate Heynckes Bayern side as the best team I've ever seen play, so no real shade on Pep there... Thing with his City team is he doesn't have the defenders to play the way he want's to, and I'm sure he knows this. But Pep being Pep, he refuses to adapt. Also getting rid of a keeper who is deemed not good enough with his feet and replacing him with an amazingly expensive keeper who can't use his hands is hilarious. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtsimonw Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 5 hours ago, villa4europe said: And all it does is show how little knowledge you have of what he actually did at Barcelona the guardiola myth starts with "he took over a great team at Barcelona" no he didn't He really did. As said above, he inherited a bunch of players that were just crowned European Champions for Spain and others that weren't too far removed from being Champions League winners with Barca. That and the likes of Xavi, Iniesta and Messi being/coming into their prime. The fact Luis Enrique won a treble says it all. He's an absolutely dreadful coach who's previous employers have only improved since he left. Then obviously took over the reigning European Champions and failed to even reach a final - whilst being humiliated in 2/3 semi finals. It's pretty insulting to players like Xavi, Messi, Iniesta, etc to suggest that they're really not that good and only succeeded as a result of their coach. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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