Wainy316 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Running directly behind my parents house. There goes my inheritance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 How much are the tickets going to cost? And is the money going to go to the same robbing bastards as it does at the minute? If it does, why are taxpayers paying to lay down the infrastructure to let the rail companies **** us again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 HS2 rail route: Turweston house valued at £0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 It happens. If we never wanted to build near people's homes we still wouldn't have any motorways or the current railway lines. There will always be collateral damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted January 29, 2013 Moderator Share Posted January 29, 2013 tonyh29, on 29 Jan 2013 - 19:07, said: God no , you may not like privatisation but reminiscing about British rail is slightly misplaced .. it was awfulWas it? It was no worse than what we have now imo. Why does the whole re-nationalise debate always come back to BR was awful. Are the German, French, Belgian, Spanish etc railways awful? No imo they aren't and the majority of European railways are state owned. BR needed reforming for sure, I doubt anyone would disagree but right now the privatised companies are doing bugger all in terms of investing in the infrastructure, privatisation really didn't work there, in fact it was responsible for many deaths. Privatised Rail companies in this country are there to make money, they are largely monopolistic and the levels of service they provide are no better than BR. In fact the system is mad, they get fined if trains are consistently late but as they don't own or control the infrastructure most of those issues are out of their control. Its the government that invests the money in the infrastructure with our money but somehow in this mad scheme of things, it is private companies that make the money, it's insane. Take a step back and think about that. Our money builds and maintains the network, then we have to pay inflated fares to satisfy shareholders of the companies for the pleasure of sitting in their goddam uncomfortable trains, which are rarely cleaned to the standard you'd expect for the prices they charge. I'd rather have cheaper nationalised fares and sit in an uncomfortable shit hole for a few hours, than pay more for the privilege, just to satisfy some investors. These Privatised companies do exactly what BR did, they just charge us more and more each year for the pleasure of being crapped on by the businesses that run the trains. Ever travelled on Northern Rail? Their rolling stock is ex BR, it should have been sent to the scrapyard a decade ago, buses are quieter and more comfortable as a rail company they are a disgrace. I've travelled frequently on London Midland between Liverpool and Brum, bloody awful, you used to be able do Liverpool to Brum quicker under BR they operated an inter city service, now the rail link between two of Britain's biggest cities is a 3 car MU that stops everywhere and takes 2 hours. It only takes 20 mins longer to get to Euston! London Midland advertise an £11 fare to London from Liverpool, you'd need your head examining to actually do it, the megabus is quicker. Any idea that the current system is better than the awful BR is a fallacy. Its worse than BR, the service is as bad or worse, the prices are higher and the profit goes in someone else's pocket and isn't invested back into the system. I'll say it again. Bring Back BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blunther Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Our money builds and maintains the network, then we have to pay inflated fares to satisfy shareholders of the companies for the pleasure of sitting in their goddam uncomfortable trains, which are rarely cleaned to the standard you'd expect for the prices they charge. I'd rather have cheaper nationalised fares and sit in an uncomfortable shit hole for a few hours, than pay more for the privilege, just to satisfy some investors. Yep... this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Was it? It was no worse than what we have now imo. Why does the whole re-nationalise debate always come back to BR was awful. Are the German, French, Belgian, Spanish etc railways awful? No imo they aren't and the majority of European railways are state owned. BR needed reforming for sure, I doubt anyone would disagree but right now the privatised companies are doing bugger all in terms of investing in the infrastructure, privatisation really didn't work there, in fact it was responsible for many deaths. Privatised Rail companies in this country are there to make money, they are largely monopolistic and the levels of service they provide are no better than BR. In fact the system is mad, they get fined if trains are consistently late but as they don't own or control the infrastructure most of those issues are out of their control. Its the government that invests the money in the infrastructure with our money but somehow in this mad scheme of things, it is private companies that make the money, it's insane. Take a step back and think about that. Our money builds and maintains the network, then we have to pay inflated fares to satisfy shareholders of the companies for the pleasure of sitting in their goddam uncomfortable trains, which are rarely cleaned to the standard you'd expect for the prices they charge. I'd rather have cheaper nationalised fares and sit in an uncomfortable shit hole for a few hours, than pay more for the privilege, just to satisfy some investors. These Privatised companies do exactly what BR did, they just charge us more and more each year for the pleasure of being crapped on by the businesses that run the trains. Ever travelled on Northern Rail? Their rolling stock is ex BR, it should have been sent to the scrapyard a decade ago, buses are quieter and more comfortable as a rail company they are a disgrace. I've travelled frequently on London Midland between Liverpool and Brum, bloody awful, you used to be able do Liverpool to Brum quicker under BR they operated an inter city service, now the rail link between two of Britain's biggest cities is a 3 car MU that stops everywhere and takes 2 hours. It only takes 20 mins longer to get to Euston! London Midland advertise an £11 fare to London from Liverpool, you'd need your head examining to actually do it, the megabus is quicker. Any idea that the current system is better than the awful BR is a fallacy. Its worse than BR, the service is as bad or worse, the prices are higher and the profit goes in someone else's pocket and isn't invested back into the system. I'll say it again. Bring Back BR The fallacy surely is that things haven't improved ... punctuality is up as is customer satisfaction SW trains have lovely quiet comfortable trains so whilst NR may be bad you can't tar them all with the same brush ... Japan renationalised their railways and wrote off billions and still do ( interesting story if you can find it on the web ), you'll pay for the trains one way or the other regardless ... There was a web article I read yesterday that showed rail fares increased less since privatisation Something like the inflation index figure is 66 and rail fares come in at 65 and under the inflation rate Im in my phone now so can't dig it out but I'm sure you can find it if you wish Good riddance to BR I say :-) Edited January 30, 2013 by tonyh29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Pangloss Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 High speed rail is definitely needed, especially to improve links between Bham and places up north, this country has shocking infrastructure and needs to be upgraded. So yes, high speed rail gets the thumbs up from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Something like the inflation index figure is 66 and rail fares come in at 65 and under the inflation rate Nice selected highlight. The reports were much more widespread than that. You're not mentioning fares up 300% on some services. No wonder satisfation is up on some lines, no more riff-raff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am struggling with the justification for this project. Incredible cost and will make a lot of peoples lives a misery and for what? We're only a tiny little country anyway, what's the rush really? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted February 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am struggling with the justification for this project. Incredible cost and will make a lot of peoples lives a misery and for what? We're only a tiny little country anyway, what's the rush really? This. Please, one of you who thinks it's necessary - why? Are all the disruptions and billions of pounds worth it, just to knock - what? - ten minutes? - off your journey? Wouldn't the money be better spent on putting on more/newer trains and improving the existing service? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CI Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am struggling with the justification for this project. Incredible cost and will make a lot of peoples lives a misery and for what? We're only a tiny little country anyway, what's the rush really? It's political. Its complicated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 1, 2013 Author Share Posted February 1, 2013 I am struggling with the justification for this project. Incredible cost and will make a lot of peoples lives a misery and for what? We're only a tiny little country anyway, what's the rush really? As has been said elsewhere, virtually all major infrastructure projects have a major impact on a large number of people; is a railway worse than a motorway/airport, etc. And has been discussed elsewhere its not just about making passenger trains quicker. Its about integrating Britain into a European wide high speed network. Its about creating more capacity on other lines, such as the West Coast Main Line, which is already at full capacity. Its not without faults, but for me HS2 is a good idea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Burgundy Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It will be good for Brum and mainly people who travel for business purposes. They generally don't pick up the costs though their firms do, god knows how much it'll cost for tickets. Thing is the whole rail system needs upgrading to this specification not just a few mainline stretches. All the rolling stock needs improving, stations refurbising, and only defunct branch lines reopening. That would genuinely make a huge difference to the way people traveled and lived and conducted business. It would be massively expensive though so doubt it will ever happen. Problem is we don't engineer like the Victorians did, we only see 20/30 years into the future now. Stupid country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I'd like if you could elaborate on some of those points Ron. I'm especially curious about sweeping statements re: entire network needing upgrading to HS2 standards, all the rolling stock needing upgrading, branch lines and the fact that we cant engineer like the Victorians. It's quite a lot more difficult to get shit done today because unlike Victorian times, a brown paper bag stuffed with a huge bribe is not how we do business any more despite what the public perception is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xann Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 ... a brown paper bag stuffed with a huge bribe is not how we do business any more despite what the public perception is. Who is "we"? Have you asked them? And you believed it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinker Posted February 1, 2013 VT Supporter Share Posted February 1, 2013 (edited) "a brown paper bag stuffed with a huge bribe is not how we do business any more despite what the public perception is." I know, for a fact, that bribery and corruption is rife within the public and private sector. Just look in any box, match day and you will see more than enough to know your wrong. Football agent agent type people are not confined to football. Edited February 1, 2013 by tinker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 It still happens, but not to the extent that it did happen. I probably should have been more clear with that when I made the point, but the Victorians had a much much much easier time getting shit done because Joe Public had virtually no say in what happened. Most of the time the public were completely unaware of what was happening until it happened. There certainly weren't a thousand online campaigns against the Great Western Railway being built because (by and large) NIMBYism didnt exist back then. Except for the people of Northampton obviously, and look at what happened to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted February 2, 2013 Author Share Posted February 2, 2013 (edited) It will be good for Brum and mainly people who travel for business purposes. They generally don't pick up the costs though their firms do, god knows how much it'll cost for tickets. Thing is the whole rail system needs upgrading to this specification not just a few mainline stretches. All the rolling stock needs improving, stations refurbising, and only defunct branch lines reopening. That would genuinely make a huge difference to the way people traveled and lived and conducted business. It would be massively expensive though so doubt it will ever happen. Problem is we don't engineer like the Victorians did, we only see 20/30 years into the future now. Stupid country. We can engineer like the Victorians; look at Cross Rail; bloody impressive. Edited February 2, 2013 by PauloBarnesi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brommy Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 We can engineer like the Victorians; look at Cross Rail; bloody impressive. As amazingly impressive Crossrail is, it won't be built as the Victorians would have; the lives of a few dozen construction workers will be spared! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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