Benno-Levin Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I live in Buckinghamshire...definately don't want this. I realise this is sentimental, but some of the countryside it's going to wreck is really beautiful. The benefits just don't add up for me. The main argument that we are being fed down here is that it will cut air traffic between London and Scotland, but the numbers are extremely debatable. Plus, who wants to go to Scotland? Yuk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brumerican Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Shouldn't we have hoverboards and jetpacks by now . Hollywood has stitched us right up IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Shouldn't we have hoverboards and jetpacks by now . tbf BTTF II was set in 2015 so they still have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheltenham_villa Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I think im in favour, id question the timing though. Id like to see British companies heavily involved in the building then at least money is being poured into our economy. It should help spread the london money into other areas, Birmingham and the midlands are falling behind the other large cities, anything that can help address that will surely help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 I'm near the M25 and i can leave my home and be at Terminal 5 in less than 20 mins , with internet check in and hand luggage I can easily allow less than an hour before being on the plane (my flight to Vegas the other week with the wife and kids we left home and dropped luggage and cleared immigration inside 40 minutes from the time we left home ) ..flight time 1 hr 25 mins .. 30 mins to get to Paris central but lets be generous and say 3 1/2 hours door to door to get to St Pancras I'd have to get to Woking 10 mins , 30 mins to Waterloo , 20 mins round to St Pancras and i think they want 40 mins min check in time on Eurostar ..then it's about 2 hrs 15 to Paris .. so around 4 hours ( not allowing for the fact that you will have to wait 30 mins for a taxi at Gare Nord ) BA price to Paris currently £55 one way , Euro star £56 but most fares are £77 for that same day ok not totally hard and fast and I'm sure some people would panic at my airport check in time (my parents for one , they still insist on being at an airport 3 hours before take off :shock:) but it's not a lot in it ... saying that , I went on Eurostar last month and the only thing i could fault it on was the price of a beer and a sandwich at St Pancras !!! That comparison is completely specific to you and where you're located. It doesn't really provide any insight as to whether this is a good thing or not (except for you) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Again though this is all based from London. Great if it runs from Euston but unless it's going via major central stations along the way OR of they bold a new station like at Birmingham then it needs amazing city centre transport. Otherwise it's pointless. All you need to do is look to Germany for the answers. I would say the Swiss but their public transport is travel utopia in comparison to ours. The current route is from Euston, then follow the Chiltern/Metropolitan route through west London(think Marylebone - Aylesbury) then run about five miles west but parallel to the Chiltern mainline (ie, Marylebone - Moor Street) before cutting through the west side of Coventry and along the A45 corridor before stopping at Birmingham International and on the site of Curzon Street station in central Birmingham. Both terminals are in pretty good locations as far as I am concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 And goes via MAN and Piccadilly? Or somewhere central? Also this will take 20 years from now? And when is Edinburgh and Glasgow and other major cities getting this? As we are spending billions on something the French have had for what 5-7 years? And why not go to new street? Is it not being dOne up anyway? Mess of a station considerIng it's the most important station in the UK. The krauts did it with Frankfurt international didn't they or was it the French and Lyon? They built the new one alongside it. Anyway taking of stations Antwerp is the best, prefer that to St Pancras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Dunno about Manchester, I dont think they have published a route yet. HS2 to Birmingham is planned to be up and running by 2025. Yes, but I dont see why what the French did has anything to do with HS2 really. France is a very different country to the UK in terms of geography and population density. New Street is full. It is actually over capacity and how it runs at the moment is a minor miracle Getting in there would be almost impossible, the "doing up" of New Street is all cosmetic too, the station itself needs major work to make it less of a bottleneck. Making it not a shithole is worth the money though. Personally I think the cost and disruption to everything means we will never see a complete rebuild of the place. The answer is to use the other stations in the city, divert more stuff into Moor Street and Snow Hill if possible and reopen Curzon Street. Birmingham is just too big a city to have one central station. I have no idea. And station architecture is subjective. We have some absolutely amazing ones here in the UK. Most London terminals are lovely, with the notable exception of Euston which is a concrete shithole. I love St Pancras, but I think Bristol Temple Meads is the nicest station in the country. I might be somewhat biased because I work there, but Moor Street is a beautiful station too. It is certainly a building Birmingham should be proud of and is easily the nicest station for about a hundred miles in any direction. (except Temple Meads) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 your missing York of that list Rev, that station blew me away. the long curved platforms make that, although the main external part of the building is great as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 6, 2012 Share Posted January 6, 2012 Wasnt really making a list, the thread is about HS2 and I dont want to take it (too) off topic. I will repeat that Bristol Temple Meads is one of the most beautiful buildings in the country though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazdavies79 Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm not convinced by the 'business plan'. The £16bn, 2025 timeframe will probably translate to £20bn and 2030, and as for the extension to the north, I bet it won't happen. We'll have a heavily subsidised expensive luxury train serving the affluent south, with premium ticket prices, serving the few, whilst the rest are left to suffer a poor service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm near the M25 and i can leave my home and be at Terminal 5 in less than 20 mins , with internet check in and hand luggage I can easily allow less than an hour before being on the plane (my flight to Vegas the other week with the wife and kids we left home and dropped luggage and cleared immigration inside 40 minutes from the time we left home ) ..flight time 1 hr 25 mins .. 30 mins to get to Paris central but lets be generous and say 3 1/2 hours door to door to get to St Pancras I'd have to get to Woking 10 mins , 30 mins to Waterloo , 20 mins round to St Pancras and i think they want 40 mins min check in time on Eurostar ..then it's about 2 hrs 15 to Paris .. so around 4 hours ( not allowing for the fact that you will have to wait 30 mins for a taxi at Gare Nord ) BA price to Paris currently £55 one way , Euro star £56 but most fares are £77 for that same day ok not totally hard and fast and I'm sure some people would panic at my airport check in time (my parents for one , they still insist on being at an airport 3 hours before take off :shock:) but it's not a lot in it ... saying that , I went on Eurostar last month and the only thing i could fault it on was the price of a beer and a sandwich at St Pancras !!! That comparison is completely specific to you and where you're located. It doesn't really provide any insight as to whether this is a good thing or not (except for you) Remember the world revolves around Tony, not the other way round... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ads Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I'm all for these big infrastructure projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloBarnesi Posted January 7, 2012 Author Share Posted January 7, 2012 How loud will the new high-speed train be? The government is attempting to reassure people over the noise levels from the planned HS2 high-speed trains. But how loud are these trains and what can be done to mitigate the noise? Powerful trains have long barrelled down tracks blowing their horns. But faster lines mean louder trains. It is thought that around 4,860 homes in England will experience extra noise as a result of the proposed train line, according to a study by the Department for Transport. An estimated 10 properties will suffer from high noise levels and another 150 will need noise insulation. So just how loud will the proposed trains be? The government is yet to indicate the volume level, but according to the Telegraph, the Department for Transport has hired engineering firm Arup to demonstrate the noise to concerned members of the public. A simulation of the train's noise when it passes through various points can be heard through headphones at a series of roadshows. Continue reading the main story THE ANSWER No official word, but opponents estimated between 95 and 97 decibels at 50m Noise can be mitigated by wheel covers, barriers and possibly trees The simulated sound has been created by using a recording of the 217mph high-speed trains in France and then adjusting the sound to take into account Britain's potentially even faster trains. The government believes 250mph trains could be available by 2020. The recording is tweaked to take into account the ambient sounds from various locations along the route. Despite an absence of official numbers, the chairwoman of the Stop HS2 group, Lizzy Williams, estimates at 50m from the track, the noise from the trains will be "between 95 and 97 decibels every two minutes if the line runs at capacity". Continue reading the main story Decibels The sound level in decibels reduces as you get further from the source The sound pressure level from a jet engine is often cited as 120dB at 50m But speed isn't the only determinant of train noise. How bothersome the noise is depends on the pitch and the quality of the sound, says Royal Academy of Engineering network rail research professor Roderick Smith. "A freight train on a poorly maintained track will create a lot more noise for a longer time," he explains. In Germany, residents have long been used to hearing high-speed Deutsche Bahn trains. "We don't see very many complaints when it comes to the noise of the high speed lines, but we see a number or complaints about the noise of the freight transport lines," a spokesman says. At 25m from the track the 85-decibel noise of their 155mph high-speed train is mitigated by noise reduction measures mandated by law. Continue reading the main story WHO, WHAT, WHY? A part of BBC News Magazine, Who, What, Why? aims to answer questions behind the headlines Though attempts will be made to manage the noise in the UK, the chairman of VoxOpp (Villages of Oxfordshire Opposing HS2), Bernie Douglas, says concrete plans have yet to be released. But there is already speculation about the tactics the government might employ to reduce the potential noise pollution. "You can build big earth ramparts and you can also put brown picket fences that are about 5m high," says Mr Douglas. An even better option is planting trees, which look more natural and also absorb carbon dioxide, says Prof Smith. But it's debatable whether the more natural options, though aesthetically pleasing, are as effective in masking the sounds. It's debatable whether or not trees help mitigate sound from trains "From what we understand trees do not have much impact on noise. They could be used to hide a lot of the features, but that's all they might be used for," says Douglas. There are two principal sources of the noise that comes from trains - the interaction of the wheels and the rails, and the aerodynamic noise of the train passing through the air very quickly, explains Prof Smith. "Broadly speaking these trains are no worse than the noise from a highway and generally more acceptable in that the noise is not continuous, whereas the noise from a highway is a constant buzz throughout the day and often throughout the night as well. "I'm not saying these trains are completely soundless and won't cause some sort of disruption, but it can be managed and it can be managed rather easily." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veloman Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 I would like to consider this from a purely academic standpoint. So - having drawn on my vast knowledge of Economics including:- marginal propensity to save, water and diamonds theory, Taylor's Scientific Management, the Multiplier, economic rent and transfer payments ; I conclude that ....... If the bastard Cameron supports it then it is good for his rich mates and bad for the rest of us ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeinMadrid Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think the impact on the local property market will be HUGE. Look for people living VERY CLOSE to London, but still commuting 1 hr-1.5 hrs to work in London to move to Birmingham. Areas close to the city centre (within 5-10 miles) which are currently depressed will soon see mass redevelopment. Why pay, for example, 500k for a smallish house just outside London when you can get a HUGE home for that money in the Birmingham area? I think lots of real estate speculation will start once the plan is approved (it will be). I am about to buy my first home, so this is very interesting to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
limpid Posted January 8, 2012 Administrator Share Posted January 8, 2012 I would like to consider this from a purely academic standpoint. So - having drawn on my vast knowledge of Economics including:- marginal propensity to save, water and diamonds theory, Taylor's Scientific Management, the Multiplier, economic rent and transfer payments ; I conclude that ....... If the bastard Cameron supports it then it is good for his rich mates and bad for the rest of us ! HS2 started as a Labour govt initiative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Rev Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think the impact on the local property market will be HUGE. Look for people living VERY CLOSE to London, but still commuting 1 hr-1.5 hrs to work in London to move to Birmingham. Areas close to the city centre (within 5-10 miles) which are currently depressed will soon see mass redevelopment. Why pay, for example, 500k for a smallish house just outside London when you can get a HUGE home for that money in the Birmingham area? I think lots of real estate speculation will start once the plan is approved (it will be). I am about to buy my first home, so this is very interesting to me. That has been happening for years, particularly since privatisation. The home counties are getting bigger and bigger as the circle of places within one hour of central London is getting bigger. If you just take the midlands for an example, Coventry is just 63 minutes from Euston. Leamington/Warwick is about 75 minutes away, Rugby is less than an hour, Nuneaton not much more when the express trains stop. It hasnt caused an explosion in house prices up here yet, but in other places well served by rail it has, North Oxfordshire is becoming much more of a commuter belt for example for those reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeinMadrid Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I think the impact on the local property market will be HUGE. Look for people living VERY CLOSE to London, but still commuting 1 hr-1.5 hrs to work in London to move to Birmingham. Areas close to the city centre (within 5-10 miles) which are currently depressed will soon see mass redevelopment. Why pay, for example, 500k for a smallish house just outside London when you can get a HUGE home for that money in the Birmingham area? I think lots of real estate speculation will start once the plan is approved (it will be). I am about to buy my first home, so this is very interesting to me. That has been happening for years, particularly since privatisation. The home counties are getting bigger and bigger as the circle of places within one hour of central London is getting bigger. If you just take the midlands for an example, Coventry is just 63 minutes from Euston. Leamington/Warwick is about 75 minutes away, Rugby is less than an hour, Nuneaton not much more when the express trains stop. It hasnt caused an explosion in house prices up here yet, but in other places well served by rail it has, North Oxfordshire is becoming much more of a commuter belt for example for those reasons. I'm all about house prices going up because of increased amenity (better transport links and shorter commutes) as opposed to hardcore property speculation. It may even relieve some of the high demand for real estate in the areas that you've mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyh29 Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I'm near the M25 and i can leave my home and be at Terminal 5 in less than 20 mins , with internet check in and hand luggage I can easily allow less than an hour before being on the plane (my flight to Vegas the other week with the wife and kids we left home and dropped luggage and cleared immigration inside 40 minutes from the time we left home ) ..flight time 1 hr 25 mins .. 30 mins to get to Paris central but lets be generous and say 3 1/2 hours door to door to get to St Pancras I'd have to get to Woking 10 mins , 30 mins to Waterloo , 20 mins round to St Pancras and i think they want 40 mins min check in time on Eurostar ..then it's about 2 hrs 15 to Paris .. so around 4 hours ( not allowing for the fact that you will have to wait 30 mins for a taxi at Gare Nord ) BA price to Paris currently £55 one way , Euro star £56 but most fares are £77 for that same day ok not totally hard and fast and I'm sure some people would panic at my airport check in time (my parents for one , they still insist on being at an airport 3 hours before take off :shock:) but it's not a lot in it ... saying that , I went on Eurostar last month and the only thing i could fault it on was the price of a beer and a sandwich at St Pancras !!! That comparison is completely specific to you and where you're located. It doesn't really provide any insight as to whether this is a good thing or not (except for you) Remember the world revolves around Tony, not the other way round... Meh I'd make it spin the other way if that were the case Someone posted that it was a no brainer to take the Eurostar... I gave an "example " of why it wasn't necessarily so But do carry on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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