dudevillaisnice Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Cuellar is the better player of those two and I agree with the comments above we should be getting rid of Collins instead.. it's a joke that these players are still at the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I don't understand why McLeish doesn't play him? I sometimes think that Carlos has not gotten the time he deserved, but then I remember that while McLeish doesn't play him... Houllier didn't play him.... MON only played him out of position as cover. I gotta believe that these more or less competent pro's that were aware of training and had much more info than we have, were all seeing something that left them uneasy. They all preferred Dunne, Collins, and Young (or Hutton). McLeish is not the only one to see some reason that Carlos should not be the King. But I will admit that I have often wondered what they were seeing (or not seeing) that I and several on here have apparently missed. Of course, whatever it is I'm glad they haven't announced it or there would be even less sell-on value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIW Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Not really that fussed to be honest. I'm slightly concerned that we would look at getting rid of our central defensive cover at this moment in time but unless McLeish is happy with what is left behind then I'd be surprised to see him go now. As for him being our best defender well that's a matter of opinion. i rate him as a defender but he's poor on the deck and has a propensity to dive in and gets beaten to easily when being run at. If I'm perfectly honest I'd like to see Collins, DFunne, and Cuellar all being replaced by better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laivasse Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I gotta believe that these more or less competent pro's that were aware of training and had much more info than we have, were all seeing something that left them uneasy. They all preferred Dunne, Collins, and Young (or Hutton). McLeish is not the only one to see some reason that Carlos should not be the King.It's true that Houllier didn't prefer Carlos (as if we should care what he thought), but not remotely true that MON preferred 'Dunne, Collins and Young'. Cuellar played week in, week out under MON. I don't know why people insist on speculating that playing him at RB was because he thought Cuellar was an inferior centre half to Collins. What on earth would be the benefit to the defence for MON to play a CB he didn't have confidence in, in a position he was bound to play even worse? If anything, Cuellar was played at RB because he was considered our most versatile CB, not because he was our best full-back or our worst CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Cuellar is a good player but lets not build him up to be more than he is. We have some very poor/under performing CB's at our club and I would like to see all 3 leave before the end of the summer window. Even when Cuellar plays we are still not rock solid or particularly difficult to breakdown so to keep him because he is "better than Collins" is not really a great reason for me. Plus his contract runs out in the summer so if we can cash in on him now we should (35k/week I think) and try and get someone else in ASAP. We need a completely new defence and to keep Cuellar would be ludicrous when he doesn't really play. I'd rather we stuck with Baker or Williams on the bench than pay £35k/week for Cuellar not to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVFC-Prideofbrum Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I don't get it personally, It's not building him upto be something he's not in my opinion. Whenever he plays, he always puts in a good performance, whether it be right back or centre back. Whenever he's played a run of games in a position, he's always done well. So frustrating, he should be playing every week at RB or CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adbo9 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 lets be realistic - the manager who spunked £8M quid on him went out and signed another centrehalf first chance he got and never played him there.......... the following two managers didnt even pick him out of position........... that to me says it all........ cuellar isnt anywhere near as good as people think - I honestly think a lot of people think hes better than he is cos he seems a "nice chap" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidlewis Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 lets be realistic - the manager who spunked £8M quid on him went out and signed another centrehalf first chance he got and never played him there.......... the following two managers didnt even pick him out of position........... that to me says it all........ cuellar isnt anywhere near as good as people think - I honestly think a lot of people think hes better than he is cos he seems a "nice chap" I presume you don't wat much football when he is playing then. Collins form last season and this season is quite clearly terrible and Cuellar is quite clearly better than him when he has been called into the side, not only playing very few games but also a lot of the time at right back when they decide to do something utterly stupid or get sent off. and he is still a better RB than Hutton. The issue is Cuellar going forward at RB, defensively only Luke Young is a better LB/RB and he is no longer here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacketspuds Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Sell Cuellar (35k/week), Warnock (45k/week), Collins (40k/week) & Dunne (55k/week) and I'm sure we could pick up 3 CB's and a LB for less than £175k/week. Surely the likes of Olsson at Blackburn & Scott Dann, plus umpteen defenders from outside of the UK, would actually command lower salaries than the ridiculous ones we're shelling out for horrific performances week on week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quizme Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Olsson is pretty overhyped imo. Not very good in defence, ok in the attacking play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savosleftboot Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 lets be realistic - the manager who spunked £8M quid on him went out and signed another centrehalf first chance he got and never played him there.......... the following two managers didnt even pick him out of position........... that to me says it all........ cuellar isnt anywhere near as good as people think - I honestly think a lot of people think hes better than he is cos he seems a "nice chap" This, under 3 managers he's been unable to get in or stay in. I see the point with Collins but he was great for the first 18 months here and has declined whereas Cuellar never hit those heights. Sell & replace both imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Think Cuellar has the typical Villa syndrome of when he doesnt play he gets better. MON, Eck and GH all played Collins ahead of him in central defence. I guarantee when he leaves Villa he will go to a club like Racing or Rangers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adbo9 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 lets be realistic - the manager who spunked £8M quid on him went out and signed another centrehalf first chance he got and never played him there.......... the following two managers didnt even pick him out of position........... that to me says it all........ cuellar isnt anywhere near as good as people think - I honestly think a lot of people think hes better than he is cos he seems a "nice chap" I presume you don't wat much football when he is playing then. Collins form last season and this season is quite clearly terrible and Cuellar is quite clearly better than him when he has been called into the side, not only playing very few games but also a lot of the time at right back when they decide to do something utterly stupid or get sent off. and he is still a better RB than Hutton. The issue is Cuellar going forward at RB, defensively only Luke Young is a better LB/RB and he is no longer here. yes, i watch lots of football matey........ but I was playing devils advocate - I didnt give a personal opinion of Cuellar just stating the facts that 3 manages, including the one who signed him for £8M, didnt play him at centre half - the latter 2 managers didnt play him at all.............. you can use the argument "have you seen Collins play this year?" and the answer is yes I have - I have seen a player that was very good for his first 18months at the club and his form has dropped since under two managers and has caused unrest off the field.......... yet still carlos cuellar doesn't get in over him......... that for me alone sets alarm bells ringing and says all you need to know about how good cuellar actually is......... no offence but ill take the opinion of ONeill, Houllier and McLeish over you im afraid........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laivasse Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 no offence but ill take the opinion of ONeill, Houllier and McLeish over you im afraid...........*sigh* I keep seeing this but people need to drop 'O'Neill' from this list tbh. You're taking the opinion of Houllier and McLeish, not O'Neill. O'Neill didn't often play Cuellar at CB, it's true. But what's also true, and more significant, is that, in his last season, nearly 100% of the time he played Cuellar over L. Young, who is a better RB than Hutton any day of the week. It's my opinion that MON thought the back four was too frail without Cuellar, and so he sacrificed some attacking mentality (Young) in order to have an extra CB supporting Collins and Dunne. The defensive performances of this season and the two prior make this look like a good opinion to hold. It's an important distinction, because if that really was what MON thought, then it doesn't mean he thought Dunne and Collins were too good for Cuellar to get in at CB. It means he thought Dunne and Collins were too weak to allow us to play Young at RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBGB Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have to say I find the Cuellar situation completely baffling. Every time I've seen him play he's been at the very least solid and often very good. Why Collins would be ahead of him based on the form of the last couple of seasons is mind boggling. Playing Hutton ahead of him is just stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob182 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I like Cuellar. Apart from occasional wayward passing, he always seems to put in a shift and make our defence more solid. Although, we don't see him in training. Perhaps his passing is sosloppy, that McLeish, Houllier and MON have all chosen not to play him at times? I don't know. But if he's sold, I won't be too bothered. He must do something in training that makes him lose his place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbr600rr Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 i think hes a better football player than the clown hutton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oaks Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 It does seem that Hutton can make a mistake game after game and Carlos **** up once he's out and Hutton is straight back in. This maybe because he is not part of the future thinking of McLeish I don't know. I don't think Carlos is "the best centre half at the club" by any stretch infact I've never really been a massive fan when he played. I think him being a likeable bloke and a cult hero has added to this myth, BUT he should have been given more of a chance in the last 18+ months without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrackpotForeigner Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 O'Neill didn't often play Cuellar at CB, it's true. But what's also true, and more significant, is that, in his last season, nearly 100% of the time he played Cuellar over L. Young, who is a better RB than Hutton any day of the week. It's my opinion that MON thought the back four was too frail without Cuellar, and so he sacrificed some attacking mentality (Young) in order to have an extra CB supporting Collins and Dunne. The defensive performances of this season and the two prior make this look like a good opinion to hold. It's an important distinction, because if that really was what MON thought, then it doesn't mean he thought Dunne and Collins were too good for Cuellar to get in at CB. It means he thought Dunne and Collins were too weak to allow us to play Young at RB.Great post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GarethRDR Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The man has buns of steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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