Carlos Cuellar - Released

[briny_ear]

Cuéllar was largely overlooked by 4 consecutive managers, one of whom bought him.

Sorry Brian but that is simply wrong. In 2009/10 he started 36 league games and started a further 12 cup games. He wasn't far off being an ever present. In his other season under O'Neill in 2008/09 he started 33 games and a further 4 as a sub.

Yeah fair point, my memory of O'Neill's time is dimming. Make it 3 managers overlooked him and the one that bought him didn't.

And the three managers who overlooked him were all rubbish, managing to produce some of the worst performances we have seen for a decade, so that's probably quits.

[VillaChris]

If he wanted a new contract, he should have played better. Simples

He did. Was MOTM at Wolves and was then dropped the next game at Spurs for Dunne who was badly out of shape and cost us a goal.

I've said it before but it has completely baffled me these last two years why Dunne and Collins are the automatic choice at centre half, both are living off 09/10 so much, particularly Collins.

[David-Copenhagen]

Cuéllar was largely overlooked by 4 consecutive managers, one of whom bought him.

Sorry Brian but that is simply wrong. In 2009/10 he started 36 league games and started a further 12 cup games. He wasn't far off being an ever present. In his other season under O'Neill in 2008/09 he started 33 games and a further 4 as a sub.

Yeah fair point, my memory of O'Neill's time is dimming. Make it 3 managers overlooked him and the one that bought him didn't.

And a lot of the time he was play at RB, which we all moaned about! Was never a CB regular.

[Zatman]

I've said it before but it has completely baffled me these last two years why Dunne and Collins are the automatic choice at centre half, both are living off 09/10 so much, particularly Collins.

could also say CC is living off that season as well as people defending him always mention that season

[briny_ear]

I've said it before but it has completely baffled me these last two years why Dunne and Collins are the automatic choice at centre half, both are living off 09/10 so much, particularly Collins.

could also say CC is living off that season as well as people defending him always mention that season

Such a sneaky tactic - mentioning how he performed when he got an extended run in the side and contributed to one of our our best defensive seasons for ages.

[Dante_Lockhart]

If he wanted a new contract, he should have played better. Simples

My problem with that is this quote

"But they said nothing. And yet in the past I had turned down offers to leave because I was told I would be given a new contract and would play!"

[DeepDish]

Those questioning Cuellar, remember that he never moaned while at the club, and he has not said anything negative about the managers that did not play him.

I don't think this is bad moaning. He is adressing something he feels is wrong at the club.

[Copey11]

Seems that the point in question here is not how good/bad Carlos is, whether we wanted him to get a new contract or not, but rather how he and we perceive the handling of players and by extrapolation the club's business in general by the board/CEO.

Now, what is relevant here is that in the last two seasons we have been essentially in relegation battles, with a wage bill issue, and with first year managers with uncertain futures. To that end, who should be sorting out player contracts? My assumption would be the manager would be meeting on a regular basis with the CEO/board for a variety of things, not the least of which would be player contracts and plans for the immediate term (how are we going to survive?) and the coming offseason (what are our needs?).

During both of the seasons Carlos could only be considered a fringe player by the managers, coming into the frame when injury or horrendous form (I am looking at you Hutton) necessitated his use. I believe he performed well when called upon, but obviously in the opinion of the managers not well enough to establish himself as a first XI mainstay (our opinions here don't count). Given that he was purchased and paid to be just that, he wasn't offered a new contract.

Now, who's job is it to communicate that? I see Faulkner getting a lot of stick here, and even Lerner, but to me that is up to the manager. In each of these cases the manager clearly not only didn't want Carlos to get a new contract, but the manager's future was in doubt as well. Would we, prior to letting Houllier or McLeish go, want our CEO to be talking to players about contracts, not knowing if the next manager in would rate him? We would go ballistic (again, substitute Hutton for Carlos in the same contract situation - had Faulkner offered a new contract in the same situation, without knowing the managers situation, we would have strung him up).

In the past other players were certainly offered new contracts, and on lucrative terms, before their contracts had wound down (Young, Downing, Barry, and I believe Milner), as they were firmly in the manager's plans. Many of the youth have recently extended their contracts in the past year, Friedel was offered one, Gabby has signed a new one, so clearly the CEO, when in alignment with a manager, has had the requisite talks and communications.

In this case, if something was promised to Carlos, it was only on the basis of what the manager wanted, in which case we didn't have one. I wouldn't expect any contact needed to be made in those instances as Faulkner surely wouldn't be extending contracts on a player who has not been a regular starter for the past two seasons in the absence of a new manager.

I like Carlos, I do think he is at worst equal to, if not better than our CBs, and I think he would have signed a contract for the same amount of money. But I certainly don't want that to happen in the absence of a manager, which has been the case for two seasons running.

[briny_ear]

Good post Copey11

[blandy]

Seconded.

[Qwpzxjor1]

Thirded. Excellent post.

[Qwpzxjor1]

By the way, could we get rid of the smiley face on the subject title?.. It was originally a smiley because he was 'On Form and In The Team'.. seeing the smiley face on subject 'Released' gives the wrong impression on [most of] our thoughts of Carlos leaving. The guy isn't Alan Hutton or Habib Beye, after all.