The, he's finally GONE! Tell us your thoughts Thread

[Mantis]

[Yeah, we had some gutless games under Houllier, no doubt about that.

We had some? off the top my head Liverpool away, Blackburn away, Man City away ( twice, one we surrendered before a ball had even been kicked ), Sunderland at home, Wolves at home, Arsenal at home, Sha at home. I had the misfortune to be at all those games and it was some of the most gutless tripe I have been served up in my 30 years following this great club.

Your right Houllier didn't have a pre season. What he inherited though was a group of players ( less Milner, plus Ireland and a number of youngsters on the verge of stepping up ) that had just given this club its best 38 game Premiership season points wise, had just finished top 6 for the third time on the bounce ( for the first time since the early 1930,s ) had just been to its first cup final in a decade and had the 4th best defence in the league the previous season. A side on its day capable of giving anyone a game and had the previous season beaten Liverpool at Anfield, Man Utd at Old Trafford and Chelsea at VP. A side that hadn't lost a local derby in years.

What did he proceed to do with the above? have us in and around the relegation mire for 5 months, serving up gutless tripe, losing against all of local rivals in the same season for the first time in donkeys years and he had to spend the best part of 30 mill to dig us out of the crap he had dug us into. No surprise given he was a known cheque book manager.

McLeish has been shite but he has matched Houlliers League record of 33 points from 28 games without Downing and Ash and 30 mill to spend in the Jan transfer window. In fact his transfer budget stands at -22 mill.

As others have said comparing Houllier and McLeish is like comparing two pieces of stinking poo. They both **** stink and the stench of McLeish isn't making Houlliers time smell any sweeter.

I didn't see all those games you mention, but some of them I definitely agree with you. liverpool and citeh, for example. The home derby against sha was boring but not gutless in the same way as AML's surrenders. Tottenham away, manure at home, liverpool again. He just gave those up from the start.

Yes, Young and Downing were still in the side and Milner was the only big name leaving that summer. And Ireland arrived. An Ireland who didn't wanna be here and played about 10 games or something, and he was awfull. Young was good but not as good as he used to be, probably already thinking about leaving. Carew was in decline. Lots of our good players were for one reason or another a lot worse than they were the season before. Some because of Houllier, some for other reasons.

The reason I had higher hopes with Houllier than I have with AML is that we seemed to get better in the spring. A lot better. And of his 4 signings 2 worked out very well, one the judge is still out on for me, and one seemed not to be good enough for the PL. And then there was Pires, and he didn't work out well. But he was a stop gap signing when we were down on numbers.

I don't agree that Houllier was as bad as many on here thinks, but that's just my opinion.

Anyway, we're going off topic a little bit too much now, perhaps. GH is gone, AML is here, and he ain't working.

This. Arsenal and SHA weren't gutless. If they were then the majority of games under McLeish have been gutless too.

How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad.

Houllier was manager when we finished 9th

we were 15th when he left

Who signed Bent (who scored won us 4 points in those last 5 games)?

rumour at time is Paul Faulkner did

Actually, we were 9th when he left. He left in June, not April.

Exactly, rumours. Do you have anything to back this up?

[Robbie09]

I think comparing Houllier and McLeish is a bit pointless... it's like looking at two steaming big piles of shit and trying to judge which one smells the nicest.

Fantastic analogy !

[Overdubber]

Silly comparing the two really, as they play a completely different style.

As for the drab football point, well Liverpool were the most boring team ever when they won te european cup on a string. Chelsea were extremely bopring when they won the league under the special one, and so forth. Playing exciting football has little to do with winning titles (long way from our ambitions I`ll admit).

[deeps]

We don't play boring football. We just don't attack and give it a go.

And most times we are set up this way too.

[Mantis]

We don't play boring football. We just don't attack and give it a go.

And most times we are set up this way too.

That's exactly what makes us boring - not having a go and setting up defensively.

[TRO]

Its all very well saying attack and give it a go.

very noble i say.

problem is in reality if you don't score and we don't predominantly, because we lack confidence and belief....then you are setting yourself up to concede an avalanche of goals

If you watch United closely....they press you through the whole game and they can defend, that gives them the confidence to go and score.

one of the successes behind the scoring of the Saunders team....the team could defend, so the srikers had confidence to raid.

sounds paradoxical I know.....because in reality it is.

[markavfc40]

Arsenal and SHA weren't gutless. If they were then the majority of games under McLeish have been gutless too.

How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad.

Oh come on the scoreline against Arsenal totally flattered us. Had they have won 7-2 it wouldn't have been an injustice. We were **** garbage and it was embarrassing watching Pires in an Aston Villa shirt strolling around like an old man who had shit himslef. As for the Sha game at home they came for a draw and Houllier was happy to set us out to oblige. It was a terrible game and we showed Sha of all teams way too much respect and were scared of losing against that shower of shite.

As for not admitting McLeish has been just as bad I've said it countless times. It would be foolish to state otherwise as he has matched Houlliers league record as Aston Villa manager and has served up about the same amount of negative tripe. Its why I wouldn't trust Lerner and Faulkner to employ another manager after these two **** ups. Having got rid of Houlllier things could only get better and then dumb and dumber go and get McLeish :shock:

[Mantis]

Arsenal and SHA weren't gutless. If they were then the majority of games under McLeish have been gutless too.

How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad.

Oh come on the scoreline against Arsenal totally flattered us. Had they have won 7-2 it wouldn't have been an injustice. We were **** garbage and it was embarrassing watching Pires in an Aston Villa shirt strolling around like an old man who had shit himslef. As for the Sha game at home they came for a draw and Houllier was happy to set us out to oblige. It was a terrible game and we showed Sha of all teams way too much respect and were scared of losing against that shower of shite.

As for not admitting McLeish has been just as bad I've said it countless times. It would be foolish to state otherwise as he has matched Houlliers league record as Aston Villa manager and has served up about the same amount of negative tripe. Its why I wouldn't trust Lerner and Faulkner to employ another manager after these two **** ups. Having got rid of Houlllier things could only get better and then dumb and dumber go and get McLeish :shock:

I was at both games and neither were gutless. We were poor against Arsenal but we still scored twice. You'd think if we were gutless in that game they would've just run away with it and won 4 or 5 nil. As for the SHA game, it was just your standard bore draw with few chances for either side. I can understand why you might see the Arsenal game as gutless but this one really baffles me. If that's gutless then so too are a fair chunk of Villa performances over the last few years. I think yo use the word gutless a bit too often. I've always reserved that word for truly terrible performances like the 7-1 at Chelsea, 6-0 at Newcastle, 4-0 at City, 3-0 at City, 2-0 at Spurs, 0-1 against Man United, 0-2 against Liverpool, 0-1 against Man City, to name a few recent examples.

Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage.

[GeauxVilla]

We don't play boring football. We just don't attack and give it a go.

And most times we are set up this way too.

That's exactly what makes us boring - not having a go and setting up defensively.

I laughed at the first comment. I mean, sir, come on, you say we dont play boring football, and then you describe our boring style of play.

[DelboyVilla]

I think comparing Houllier and McLeish is a bit pointless... it's like looking at two steaming big piles of shit and trying to judge which one smells the nicest.

Fantastic analogy !

But very accurate!!

And remember we have paid 12m for all these changes in management!

We could have signed another SI for that!

[nick76]

I think comparing Houllier and McLeish is a bit pointless... it's like looking at two steaming big piles of shit and trying to judge which one smells the nicest.

Fantastic analogy !

Sums my thoughts up exactly, still not sure why I keep reading this thread but I do......MrDuck sums it up

[PussEKatt]

I think comparing Houllier and McLeish is a bit pointless... it's like looking at two steaming big piles of shit and trying to judge which one smells the nicest.

Fantastic analogy !

But very accurate!!

And remember we have paid 12m for all these changes in management!

We could have signed another SI for that!

Why has it cost us so much for managers ? sureley it would be better buisness to hire a manager on a 1 year contract with the option to renew it for a longer period if he was any good.

[Super-Villan]

Why has it cost us so much for managers ? sureley it would be better buisness to hire a manager on a 1 year contract with the option to renew it for a longer period if he was any good.

That's not realistic though, and very few managers (if any) would accept that, so you'd severely limit the field of candidates.

[PussEKatt]

Why has it cost us so much for managers ? sureley it would be better buisness to hire a manager on a 1 year contract with the option to renew it for a longer period if he was any good.

That's not realistic though, and very few managers (if any) would accept that, so you'd severely limit the field of candidates.

I would say that the manager we have is from a list of severly limited candidates.

Seriously though that means that the club sign a contract worth squillions of pounds for a manager without giving him a tryout first ? ! The system needs to be changed

[briny_ear]

How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad.

Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?

[Mantis]

How come Mark you constantly mention what you saw as gutless performances under Houllier yet you've been silent about McLeish? I'm not going to contest that there were some gutless games under Houllier but at least admit that McLeish has been just as bad.

Have you ever glanced down at his sig.?

What's that got to do with anything?

[markavfc40]

I was at both games and neither were gutless. We were poor against Arsenal but we still scored twice. You'd think if we were gutless in that game they would've just run away with it and won 4 or 5 nil. As for the SHA game, it was just your standard bore draw with few chances for either side. I can understand why you might see the Arsenal game as gutless but this one really baffles me. If that's gutless then so too are a fair chunk of Villa performances over the last few years. I think yo use the word gutless a bit too often. I've always reserved that word for truly terrible performances like the 7-1 at Chelsea, 6-0 at Newcastle, 4-0 at City, 3-0 at City, 2-0 at Spurs, 0-1 against Man United, 0-2 against Liverpool, 0-1 against Man City, to name a few recent examples.

Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage.

Mate I am not going to argue with you over what I class as gutless tripe and what you consider gutless tripe. That is all down to individual standards and what each individual will find acceptable and how they will perceive any given performance. Over the last two seasons I'd definitely say we served up gutless tripe in 2010/11 against Man City away twice, Blackburn away, Liverpool away, Sha at home, Arsenal at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home. This season we served up similar tripe against Spurs away, and Liverpool and Man Utd at home. Whether you agree with that or not quite frankly I couldn't give two monkeys **** as you like me are entitled to come away from a game and judge the performance as you see fit.

If I seem a lot less fiery in my criticism of McLeish maybe I am. Having been served up shit sandwich after shit sandwich over the last two seasons you almost become tired of whinging about it and it is now very apparent that the problems at this great club run deeper than the manager. I genuinely thought Houllier was just a blip for Lerner, that he'd learn from it and put things right. Having then kicked us in the teeth again by appointing McLeish I have now come to realise that screaming and shouting to get rid of him is all well and good but even if that happens we are still left with the same clowns picking our next manager. The same clowns who appointed McLeish and Houllier. :shock:

[Mantis]

I was at both games and neither were gutless. We were poor against Arsenal but we still scored twice. You'd think if we were gutless in that game they would've just run away with it and won 4 or 5 nil. As for the SHA game, it was just your standard bore draw with few chances for either side. I can understand why you might see the Arsenal game as gutless but this one really baffles me. If that's gutless then so too are a fair chunk of Villa performances over the last few years. I think yo use the word gutless a bit too often. I've always reserved that word for truly terrible performances like the 7-1 at Chelsea, 6-0 at Newcastle, 4-0 at City, 3-0 at City, 2-0 at Spurs, 0-1 against Man United, 0-2 against Liverpool, 0-1 against Man City, to name a few recent examples.

Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage.

Mate I am not going to argue with you over what I class as gutless tripe and what you consider gutless tripe. That is all down to individual standards and what each individual will find acceptable and how they will perceive any given performance. Over the last two seasons I'd definitely say we served up gutless tripe in 2010/11 against Man City away twice, Blackburn away, Liverpool away, Sha at home, Arsenal at home, Wolves at home, Sunderland at home. This season we served up similar tripe against Spurs away, and Liverpool and Man Utd at home. Whether you agree with that or not quite frankly I couldn't give two monkeys **** as you like me are entitled to come away from a game and judge the performance as you see fit.

If I seem a lot less fiery in my criticism of McLeish maybe I am. Having been served up shit sandwich after shit sandwich over the last two seasons you almost become tired of whinging about it and it is now very apparent that the problems at this great club run deeper than the manager. I genuinely thought Houllier was just a blip for Lerner, that he'd learn from it and put things right. Having then kicked us in the teeth again by appointing McLeish I have now come to realise that screaming and shouting to get rid of him is all well and good but even if that happens we are still left with the same clowns picking our next manager. The same clowns who appointed McLeish and Houllier. :shock:

What about Swansea away, Man City at home, West Brom at home, Wigan away and Swansea at home this season? Going by your "standards" there were also a fair few gutless performances pre-Houllier as well.

Fair enough, just seemed a bit strange.

[Villastine]

Us complaining about the manager on a message board is about as useful as trying to empty the Atlantic Ocean with a bucket.

Actually it’s less effective.

If the 20,000 or so season ticket holders headed to the coast with buckets I think randy would take much more notice!

And it would be a better day out than some of our home games!

[Richard]

Hmm, well you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of McLeish this season, despite him doing just a bad a job as Houllier did at this stage.

To be brutally fair Mantis that could very easily be turned round to you ie you certainly seem a lot less fiery in your criticism of Houllier of last season , despite him doing just as bad a job as Mcleish is doing this season.

I think Mark is equally critical of both to be honest and I have also been equally forthright in my opinion that both are shite managers